How to get title insurance to pay for land survey

[Airgunner]

San Diego County, CA

I contacted Title insurance to pay for a survey as we are unsure exactly where are property lines are. The survey is $3000 as the land was never staked.

I opened a claim and they responded "there's nothing in the policy that explicitly obliges 'insurance company' to pay for a survey of the property whenever the insureds are uncertain about the location of their boundaries"

Covered risk 26:

"your title is unmarketable, which allows someone else to refuse to perform a contract to purchase the land, lease it or make a mortgage loan on it"

The fences are falling over and seem to be askew according to the parcel map. We are doing improvements in preparation to sell the place. I'd like to get my title insurance to pay for the survey. How do I get them to pay?

 

[justalayman]

I believe you have taken something out of context. A lack of a survey does not make a property unmarketable.

How do I get them to pay?

You don't.


edit; I meant to say title unmarketable, not property

 

[Airgunner]

I believe you have taken something out of context. A lack of a survey does not make a property unmarketable.

You don't.

If I don't know where the property lines are and the new fences, or old fences are not where they should be there could be problems with the sale of the property.

I'd like to preempt any problems.

 

[sandyclaus]

If I don't know where the property lines are and the new fences, or old fences are not where they should be there could be problems with the sale of the property.

I'd like to preempt any problems.

While there may be problems with the sale of the property, it doesn't make it unmarketable.

And you aren't having an issue with selling the property, because you aren't putting it up for sale. Your problem is with the fences on the property.

 

[justalayman]

If I don't know where the property lines are and the new fences, or old fences are not where they should be there could be problems with the sale of the property.

I'd like to preempt any problems.

yep, it sure could but that doesn't make any issue with the TITLE and its marketability.

 

[BigMouthWino]

You can try filing a complaint with your state insurance commissioner. It's a free bite at the apple for you to attempt to force payment. Whether or not you're in the right here, it costs nothing and could force a payment if you are successful.

 

[justalayman]

You can try filing a complaint with your state insurance commissioner. It's a free bite at the apple for you to attempt to force payment. Whether or not you're in the right here, it costs nothing and could force a payment if you are successful.

seriously? It amazes me. Every once in awhile you actually post something that is informative and correct and then you go and kill my faith in you by posting something like you have here. The title insurance company had no obligation to pay for a survey ESPECIALLY given the situation presented here.

While I could maybe entertain an argument for it if there was a title issue (and that would take a lot of selling) but here we have a person that simply wants to know where their property line is.

 

[Airgunner]

un·mar·ket·a·ble:
Without qualities that attract sales; not marketable

Janky fences not on the property line do not attract sales.

Anyhow I'm going to read over the policy again, there's 30 or so clauses spelled out and one of them should work in my favor.

 

[justalayman]

you are not understanding. Title issues have nothing to do with your fence. Title is not synonymous with property.


and no, after having worked in that field, I can assure you, none of them will work in your favor.

 

[Airgunner]

you are not understanding. Title issues have nothing to do with your fence. Title is not synonymous with property.

Then please make me understand.

As I see it: Title is a legal term for a bundle of rights in a piece of property in which a party may own either a legal interest or an equitable interest.

Where does the property begin or end? I don't know and put a fence 6' on the neighbors property or gas and electric easement and problems arise. That is a title issue no?

 

[BigMouthWino]

seriously? It amazes me. Every once in awhile you actually post something that is informative and correct and then you go and kill my faith in you by posting something like you have here. The title insurance company had no obligation to pay for a survey ESPECIALLY given the situation presented here.

While I could maybe entertain an argument for it if there was a title issue (and that would take a lot of selling) but here we have a person that simply wants to know where their property line is.

Probably so, but why not file the complaint? It's like filing for unemployment insurance. You file because you have nothing to lose by not filing. Any time an insurer denies a claim for anything you should make an insurance commissioner complaint. It costs you nothing but your time and you never know what the state will decide.

 

[justalayman]

Then please make me understand.

As I see it: Title is a legal term for a bundle of rights in a piece of property in which a party may own either a legal interest or an equitable interest.

Where does the property begin or end? I don't know and put a fence 6' on the neighbors property or gas and electric easement and problems arise. That is a title issue no?

Ok.

the property is the physical piece of dirt

title is the ownership (for lack of a better term).

Think about it like a car and the certificate of title. The name on the title shows you own it. That is what is insured. It doesn't matter if the car is in good condition or not as that does not affect the title.

Now, even if you have a title with your name on it, if somebody comes along and says "hey, that's my car. It was stolen from me last year" In real estate terms, that is what would be called a "cloud" where there is a question as to whom actually holds title. That is what is insured by your title insurance.

You can have a marketable title (referred to as a clear title as opposed to having a cloud on it) but the property, due to ratty fences and broken windows in the house and weeds 12 feet high is nearly impossible to sell (unmarketable basically).

You can have a clouded title (unmarketable) but have the most pristine property in the neighborhood.

They are simply 2 very different things: title and property

 

[justalayman]

Probably so, but why not file the complaint? It's like filing for unemployment insurance. You file because you have nothing to lose by not filing. Any time an insurer denies a claim for anything you should make an insurance commissioner complaint. It costs you nothing but your time and you never know what the state will decide.

because it is an absolute waste of time for both the person filing and for the overworked people having to address the filing and in the end, nothing will come from it.

 

[Airgunner]

Ok.

the property is the physical piece of dirt

title is the ownership (for lack of a better term).

Think about it like a car and the certificate of title. The name on the title shows you own it. That is what is insured. It doesn't matter if the car is in good condition or not as that does not affect the title.

Now, even if you have a title with your name on it, if somebody comes along and says "hey, that's my car. It was stolen from me last year" In real estate terms, that is what would be called a "cloud" where there is a question as to whom actually holds title. That is what is insured by your title insurance.

You can have a marketable title (referred to as a clear title as opposed to having a cloud on it) but the property, due to ratty fences and broken windows in the house and weeds 12 feet high is nearly impossible to sell (unmarketable basically).

You can have a clouded title (unmarketable) but have the most pristine property in the neighborhood.

They are simply 2 very different things: title and property

Thank you, I understand a bit more now. So not knowing where my dirt ends is not a 'cloud'. A cloud must be in writing or otherwise documented?

 

[justalayman]

Where does the property begin or end? I don't know and put a fence 6' on the neighbors property or gas and electric easement and problems arise. That is a title issue no?

No.

If the neighbor puts up a fence and claims it is on his property line, that still isn't a title issue. It is a property line dispute and that is a property issue, not a title issue.

Now, if the neighbor has a deed and the description of his property overlaps with the description of the property on your deed, that is obviously a property line issue but it is also a title issue as both of you are claiming title to that piece of property that overlaps. That is what makes a title unmarketable.


just to be clear, there are many other issues that can affect a title and its marketability but this is the easiest to explain.