Prison Escape

[coop85]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
I live in NC.
This is my first attempt to use this forum.
I have a true story of a man who escaped (about 1941) from the notorious penal colony of French Guiana. He made his way to Suriname. There he was detained by an officer of the Dutch army who was in charge of a small contingent on the border. I subsequently met this officer (1954) and one day he presented me with the manuscript.
I would like to know if I can legally copyright this manuscript.

Rcoop

 

[justalayman]

did he transfer his copyrights to you? If not, it isn't your work and you have no rights to protect.

Now, if you write a book based on the manuscript, you can copyright that.

here is a faq from the copyright office (copyright.gov) that is applicable to your situation:

Can I register a diary I found in my grandmother's attic?


You can register copyright in the diary only if you own the rights to the work, for example, by will or by inheritance. Copyright is the right of the author of the work or the author's heirs or assignees, not of the one who only owns or possesses the physical work itself. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Who Can Claim Copyright.”

 

[coop85]

prison escape

did he transfer his copyrights to you? If not, it isn't your work and you have no rights to protect.

Now, if you write a book based on the manuscript, you can copyright that.

here is a faq from the copyright office (copyright.gov) that is applicable to your situation:

Thanks for your reply. To answer your first question -- No, he did not transfer his copyright to me. I have the strong belief that the work was never copyrighted. The original work is handwritten in a small notebook such as a school child might possess. It was handed over to the Dutch army officer (in Suriname) in exchange for any help he could give the author plus some little money.
The officer, in turn, gave me the work.
Does this change the conditions so that I could apply for a copyright to it?

In reply to the second question -- I did not (and do not intend to) write a book based on the manuscript. I have typed it out since it is difficult reading in the author's fractured English ( he being French). Could the typed version be copyrighted?

 

[justalayman]

copyright is not dependent on registering it. Any work is afforded a copyright merely by it being produced in a tangible form.

Could the typed version be copyrighted?

it is merely a copy of the written book, correct? (get the hint?)

A copy does not have to be a xerox copy to be considered a violation of the copyrights.

 

[latigo]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
I live in NC.
This is my first attempt to use this forum.
I have a true story of a man who escaped (about 1941) from the notorious penal colony of French Guiana. He made his way to Suriname. There he was detained by an officer of the Dutch army who was in charge of a small contingent on the border. I subsequently met this officer (1954) and one day he presented me with the manuscript.
I would like to know if I can legally copyright this manuscript.

Rcoop

Is this déjà vu, a con job, plagiarism or were there two of the notorious adventurers and self-promoters named Henri Charriere?

Because one Henri Charriere has written and published his odyssey including eleven years imprisonment in the French penal colony of St. Laurent–du-Maroni on the mainland of French Guinea for a Paris murder conviction, his second and successful escape in l941, under the best selling title PAPILLON!

A title role played by one Steve McQueen - 1973.

 

[justalayman]

Is this déjà vu, a con job, plagiarism or were there two of the notorious adventurers and self-promoters named Henri Charriere?

Because one Henri Charriere has written and published his odyssey including eleven years imprisonment in the French penal colony of St. Laurent–du-Maroni on the mainland of French Guinea for a Paris murder conviction, his second and successful escape in l941, under the best selling title PAPILLON!

A title role played by one Steve McQueen - 1973.

that was my thought exactly.

 

[Mass_Shyster]

copyright is not dependent on registering it. Any work is afforded a copyright merely by it being produced in a tangible form.

That may not have been true when and where this was written. I know in the US before around 1986, the copyright didn't exist unless it was specifically reserved, using the word "Copyright" or the C inside a circle.

 

[justalayman]

That may not have been true when and where this was written. I know in the US before around 1986, the copyright didn't exist unless it was specifically reserved, using the word "Copyright" or the C inside a circle.

ya got me thinking steve so I did a little looking around.

From what I can find, at the time of publication, Suriname was under Dutch rule. I presume the copyright laws of the Netherlands applied in Suriname in 1941.

Now, we go to the US copyright laws.

In 1994, the US signed the URAA. Based on the rules of the URAA, any copyrights of a foreign nation that is a member of the Berne convention or WTO and if the work was of the public domain in the US, the copyrights of that work were restored. I presume it was in the public domain until this restoration due to the fact it was not registered properly to be covered under copyright laws applicable to publications from 1941. The effective date for the basis of the life of the newly restored copyright is 1996 for existing members of the Berne convention or WTO. (the Netherlands has been a member since 1912)

For works published prior to 1978, the duration of the protections are 95 years from the first publication. Since first publication is claimed to be 1941, that would mean there protection until 2073.


So, no guarantees that is correct but if it is, OP has another 61 years before copyrights expire.

 

[Mass_Shyster]

So, no guarantees that is correct but if it is, OP has another 61 years before copyrights expire.

Maybe.

One could argue that the work was never in the public domain because it has never been published. I found a reference to Netherlands Copyright of 1912. http://www.ivir.nl/legislation/nl/copyrightact.html It mentions 70 years of protection, which means a 1941 work was protected until 2011. It also seems to allow a subsequent someone to acquire protection when publishing a document for the first time after the original protection expires. I may not have read this correctly (I was reading a long document on my phone and scanning for relevant points).

CHAPTER VII Protection of works communicated to the public after expiry of the term of protection

Article 45o

1. Any person who, after the expiry of the term of copyright protection, for the first time lawfully communicates to the public a previously unpublished work shall enjoy the exclusive right referred to in article 1.

2. The right referred to in paragraph 1 shall expire 25 years after 1 January of the year following that in which the work concerned was lawfully communicated to the public for the first time.

3. The provisions of paragraphs 1 and 2 shall also apply to previously unpublished works which have never been protected by copyright, the author of which died more than 70 years ago.

The date of the item is also important, because it seems like it could be anywhere between 1941 and 1954.

In any event, I believe OP needs a Dutch Copyright attorney to see if either of us is correct. (Where is Zigner when we need him?)

 

[justalayman]

One could argue that the work was never in the public domain because it has never been published.

check out the definition. I believe what happened fulfills the requirement

“Publication” is the distribution of copies or phonorecords
of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending.

A further discussion of the definition of “publication” can
be found in the legislative history of the 1976 Copyright
Act. The legislative reports define “to the public” as distri*
bution to persons under no explicit or implicit restrictions
with respect to disclosure of the contents. The reports state
that the definition makes it clear that the sale of phonore*
cords constitutes publication of the underlying work, for
example, the musical, dramatic, or literary work embodied
in a phonorecord. The reports also state that it is clear that
any form of dissemination in which the material object does
not change hands, for example, performances or displays on
television, is not a publication no matter how many people
are exposed to the work

Is giving the only copy to a member of the public publication? If not, it shoots my explanation.

I found a reference to Netherlands Copyright of 1912. It mentions 70 years of protection, which means a 1941 work was protected until 2011.

that is Netherlands. This is US copyright law. What I read imposes US copyright law on publication in the US.

The date of the item is also important, because it seems like it could be anywhere between 1941 and 1954.

given that timeframe, I do not believe it betters the OP's situation but if anything, makes it worse since it could add 13 years to the date I gave.

In any event, I believe OP needs a Dutch Copyright attorney to see if either of us is correct.

for US Copyright law?

from the us copyright office:

Copyright and National Origin of the Work
Copyright protection is available for all unpublished works,
regardless of the nationality or domicile of the author.
Published works are eligible for copyright protection in the
United States if any one of the following conditions is met:

• The work is a foreign work that was in the public domain
in the United States prior to 1996 and its copyright was
restored under the Uruguay Round Agreements Act
(URAA). See Circular 38b, Highlights of Copyright Amendments Contained in the Uruguay Round Agreements Act
(URAA-GATT), for further information.

 

[coop85]

check out the definition. I believe what happened fulfills the requirement







Is giving the only copy to a member of the public publication? If not, it shoots my explanation.


that is Netherlands. This is US copyright law. What I read imposes US copyright law on publication in the US.



given that timeframe, I do not believe it betters the OP's situation but if anything, makes it worse since it could add 13 years to the date I gave.

for US Copyright law?

from the us copyright office:

Wow, I was overwhelmed by the number of responses I received.
Here are my thoughts. 1) I greatly appreciate everyone's help. 2) I still don't know if I can legally copyright the story. 3) I'm wondering if I should even try to copyright.
The fact is that my main concern with this story is that it becomes safely archived someplace as a potentially valuable piece of historical interest. I have sent out requests to many places asking if they would want to archive the story. I have as yet received no positive responses.

Two writers have expressed interest. I worry that if I give the story to either writer it may never be made available as a source of historical value to researchers. That is why I thought to copyright the story. So I would have control of it in case I do hear from some place (like the Smithsonian, for example) who would archive like to and thus make it available to researchers.

I would like to make one other thing clear. I am not interested in making money with this story. My interest is only in preserving it. I am 87 and if I were to die, it's highly likely that the old worn notebook would be mistaken for trash and be thrown out with all my other trash.

If i give up the idea of copyrighting the story I suppose it will no longer be a legal matter. Despite this, I ask you all to help me find a good home for it. i would be greatly appreciative of any help I receive.

Coop85

 

[Mass_Shyster]

Who wrote the manuscript, the escapee or the officer?
When was the manuscript written?
When was the manuscript presented to you?
Where was the manuscript presented to you?
Is the manuscript the only existing original or is this a copy of the original?

 

[coop85]

Who wrote the manuscript, the escapee or the officer?
When was the manuscript written?
When was the manuscript presented to you?
Where was the manuscript presented to you?
Is the manuscript the only existing original or is this a copy of the original?

I thought I had emailed this but I don't see it on the list of threads, so here it is again:

The manuscript was written by the escapee sometime around 1941 after he escaped from the French Penal Colony in French Guiana to Suriname. It was given to me in 1956 in New York City. It is a handwritten original.

 

[latigo]

I thought I had emailed this but I don't see it on the list of threads, so here it is again:

The manuscript was written by the escapee sometime around 1941 after he escaped from the French Penal Colony in French Guiana to Suriname. It was given to me in 1956 in New York City. It is a handwritten original.

Why are you purposely avoiding any acknowledgment of the striking similarities between this so-called, “original”, handwritten “true story” manuscript and Henri Charriere's best selling autobiography entitled "PAPILLON" describing his l931Paris murder conviction; his imprisonment and his escape from “Devil’s Island” in the year l941? The very same year in which your author/chracter supposedly escaped from a French Guiana prison.

The fact that you are ignoring the obvious resemblance with Papillon isn’t adding any credence to your story. Particularly considering that few ever escaped from those jungle and island penal colonies and lived to tell about. Clement Duval in l901 and Papillon forty years later being the only celebrated escapees.

Also somewhat incredulous is your statement that the MS was “written sometime around l941”. What evidence do you have as to when it was written.

What author would date his work, “sometime in l941”, or “circa l941”?

And why have you failed to disclose the name of the purported escapee and/or author? Or the language it is written in?

___________________________

Clearly if this is an unpublished, original, authentic, verifiable account of such a rare adventure it would have extreme literary significance.

What is strange is that the person allegedly in possession and totally convinced of its genuineness would be mincing away on the Internet with strangers that wouldn't know a publishing house from a warehouse (me included), instead of seeking the opinions of literary agents and editors.

Any number of which might immediately recognize it as genuine or fake.

Then maybe you really don’t want to know. For some inexplicable reason you seem to have been sitting on it for six decades.

 

[coop85]

prison escape

Why are you purposely avoiding any acknowledgment of the striking similarities between this so-called, “original”, handwritten “true story” manuscript and Henri Charriere's best selling autobiography entitled "PAPILLON" describing his l931Paris murder conviction; his imprisonment and his escape from “Devil’s Island” in the year l941? The very same year in which your author/chracter supposedly escaped from a French Guiana prison.

The fact that you are ignoring the obvious resemblance with Papillon isn’t adding any credence to your story. Particularly considering that few ever escaped from those jungle and island penal colonies and lived to tell about. Clement Duval in l901 and Papillon forty years later being the only celebrated escapees.

Also somewhat incredulous is your statement that the MS was “written sometime around l941”. What evidence do you have as to when it was written.

What author would date his work, “sometime in l941”, or “circa l941”?

And why have you failed to disclose the name of the purported escapee and/or author? Or the language it is written in?

___________________________

Clearly if this is an unpublished, original, authentic, verifiable account of such a rare adventure it would have extreme literary significance.

What is strange is that the person allegedly in possession and totally convinced of its genuineness would be mincing away on the Internet with strangers that wouldn't know a publishing house from a warehouse (me included), instead of seeking the opinions of literary agents and editors.

Any number of which might immediately recognize it as genuine or fake.

Then maybe you really don’t want to know. For some inexplicable reason you seem to have been sitting on it for six decades.

Hi Latigo,




Thanks for your reply, the tenor of which, by the way, *was certainly a bit on the hostile side.*
But that's OK. Perhaps I would be suspicious too if I were in your shoes.
I am not purposely avoiding anything. The whole story was just too large to tell in one or two posts. I will be happy to tell you anything you want to know about this matter. There are no secret plots of any kind. So here goes:
“avoiding any acknowledgment of the striking similarities” *You mention Papillon (as does everyone when this subject is brought up). The only “striking similarities” are that they both were French males and that neither of them escaped from Devil's Island! *I assume you know that Papillon's story has been almost totally discredited. *Some say it may be no more than 10% true. Charriere himself said 75% true.
I have probably read all the available literature on prison escapes from this penal colony. I have also been to both French Guiana and neighboring Suriname. The truth is, the story I have could never *be thought of as interesting. The author tells the story in a straightforward way, and I'm sorry to say that he comes off as griper (little wonder, you might say), and instead of showing us with examples of how bad conditions were, he merely tells us they were bad. Definitely not a page-turner as was Papillon! But it does have a ring of authenticity about it and, as far as I know, it is authentic.*




“and his escape from “Devil’s Island” in the year l941? The very same year in which your author/chracter supposedly escaped from a French Guiana prison.” *Yes, it sure does sound like a suspicious co-incidence that they both apparently escaped in the same year. I'll grant you that. But here's the thing. With Papillon, you're never sure of anything he said, and with “my guy” I don't know for sure when he wrote the story. All I know is that it was given over to a Dutch Army officer (Captain, I think) who had a small contingent of soldiers on the river bordering French Guiana in 1941, as told to me by that very same officer, when he gave the manuscript to me, *in 1956.




“few ever escaped from those jungle and island penal colonies and lived to tell about.” *Actually there*
were quite a few escapes. We know this because the Dutch ambassador wrote a letter of complaint to French Guiana's governor about the many escaped convicts who made it to Suriname.




Do you see how long this is getting to be? *Do you still wonder why all this was not put into one of my posts?
*Okay, to go on. Why did I not put the name of the escapee in any post! I did not think it mattered, and I still do not think so. Besides that, we are in an area of legalities that I am not sure of. Although the name would not mean a thing to you, I would not hesitate to reveal it if one of you responders, who are knowledgeable in things like libel, for example, can assure me that it is OK. But would you please explain to me why the name would change anything we are discussing?*
The answer to the other part of this question is that it was written in English, so very poor that it is often difficult to know what the author is trying to say.*




“Clearly if this is an unpublished, original, authentic, verifiable account of such a rare adventure it would have extreme literary significance.” * Now you're talking my language. I have been saying this all along, that's why I want to steward this ms. and get it into safe hands where it *can be archived for future researchers. . *




“ mincing away on the Internet with strangers” *I'm sorry. I did not know I was doing that. I'm not even sure what mincing means. *Actually I have gone to several writer's forums, seeking the opinions of literary agents and editors, as you suggest. I appreciate this suggestion but I have already been there. By the way, none of them have even suggested this could be a fake (as you did). But you are right. It could well be fake. I have not yet had a positive reply to any of the numerous inquiries I have made to varous organizations here and in France. Maybe you could help me with verifying the authenticity of this ms. Any tips would be appreciated.




Your last question, and a tough one to answer. “For some inexplicable reason you seem to have been sitting on it for six decades.“
I really cannot explain it, but I'll try. I guess I never thought of the ms. as a valuable research document because of the casual way it was given to me. I had good intentions regarding it, but they went the way of so many good intentions – mine, at least. I can't speak for others.
In a similar way, for some inexplicable reason, I let 6 decades go by without looking into my family history. *Once I did look into it, I found genealogy to be a fascinating pursuit.*
The only answer I have given in posts is that I am now at an age where I am living on borrowed time.
If I were to go (die, to use the word we all seem to avoid) *there is a very good chance the ms. would get inadvertently thrown away. *I guess I could scatter notes around, or go to my lawyer or something like that. But on't think the notes would do the trick to prevent that loss, and I don't have a lawyer.




Anyway, This has gone on far too long. If anyone has been able to overcome their boredom and read this far perhaps they could help me in a different way. After reading the many, many responses I've received in very fine legalese, *I have this question.*




Can't I simply write this story up – *with the clear explanation that it is not my work – and then describe how I received it (as per above), adding that I am not looking for remuneration, then simply put it up on the web without trying to copyright it ( which I couldn't do anyway) where it would be available to anyone who wants to use it for research?