Can I be sued by a merchant for winning a chargeback?

[Bmcgee3]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Oregon

I was involved in a dispute with a hotel when I was on vacation, I was charged a ridiculous $500 smoking fee for smoking in a non-smoking room, thing is I didn't smoke. So I disputed the charge immediately with my credit card company. This was 2 months ago and they told me they would do an investigation. Apparently I won this investigation because the charge was reversed. Well this morning I received this from the merchant

"We received a dispute notice from our Credit card processor in the amount of $500.00 from your Credit card company/bank. We will be taking you to small claims court for this charge, if the $500.00 is not reversed by today, 05/10/13."

What on earth do I do now? This is a major hotel chain why are pursing $500 from months ago that they wrongfully charged anyway. I thought I was doing what I had the right to do as customer which is dispute a charge, I didn't know I could be sued for it? Can I hire a lawyer for this? I live in CA and I was just visiting Oregon, how does that work if they sue me and i'm another state, do I really have to go back to Oregon?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Zigner]

Yes, they can sue you. Yes, they can sue you in Oregon.

 

[ecmst12]

Of course, the burden of proof that you smoked in the room will be on them.

 

[swalsh411]

Hold on a second. I thought when a merchant agreed to accept Visa/Mastercard as payment they specifically agreed not to sue when they lost chargebacks. I could be wrong but I've heard that many times.

OP: I would report this merchant to the credit card processor. (not your bank, but VISA, Amex, MC etc.). They may be able to fire off a warning shot to the hotel to let it go.

 

[Mass_Shyster]

Of course, the burden of proof that you smoked in the room will be on them.

They will also have to show OP caused $500 in damages, or, if based on a liquidated damages clause in a contract, that the amount is not punitive.

This is assuming OP shows up to defend himself/herself.

OP should also contact the credit card company. Their agreement may have an arbitration clause.

 

[Zigner]

Hold on a second. I thought when a merchant agreed to accept Visa/Mastercard as payment they specifically agreed not to sue when they lost chargebacks. I could be wrong but I've heard that many times.

Even if true (and we don't have that hotel's merchant agreement in front of us) it wouldn't preclude the merchant from suing. That would be a matter for the credit card company to address with the merchant.

OP: I would report this merchant to the credit card processor. (not your bank, but VISA, Amex, MC etc.). They may be able to fire off a warning shot to the hotel to let it go.

Can't hurt to give it a try.

 

[Zigner]

They will also have to show OP caused $500 in damages, or, if based on a liquidated damages clause in a contract, that the amount is not punitive.

The hotel likely has this as part of their agreement with the customer. As such, the hotel would only need to show, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the OP and/or his guests did, in fact, smoke in the room.

This is assuming OP shows up to defend himself/herself.

Yes, that too.

OP should also contact the credit card company. Their agreement may have an arbitration clause.

The CC is not the one threatening to sue. The OP would need to refer to his contract with the hotel.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

How do you know your friends did not smoke in your room Brandi? I suspect we are not dealing with assembly line manufactured cigarettes either.

 

[Mass_Shyster]

The hotel likely has this as part of their agreement with the customer. As such, the hotel would only need to show, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the OP and/or his guests did, in fact, smoke in the room.

I'm really too lazy to search to see if CA or OR permits punitive liquidated damages. I suppose anything is possible on the left coast.

 

[Bmcgee3]

How do you know your friends did not smoke in your room Brandi? I suspect we are not dealing with assembly line manufactured cigarettes either.

Because I did not have any friends in my room. It was just my boyfriend and myself. I flew in from Hawaii to visit my boyfriend before I went home to CA. I checked on at 5pm 3/25 and left for a hiking trip with my bf around 9am 3/26 we did not return to the hotel until around 10pm 3/27 at which point I got a call from the front desk at midnight! saying I was being a smoking fee. This was not a room people were partying in, or guests were being entertained, I simply needed a place to keep all my luggage and wanted a nice bed to sleep in and a place to shower before my flight in the morning. Their story is that the housekeeper smelled smoke and the manager came in and verified the smell so they charged my card.

 

[Bmcgee3]

ridiculous

Hold on a second. I thought when a merchant agreed to accept Visa/Mastercard as payment they specifically agreed not to sue when they lost chargebacks. I could be wrong but I've heard that many times.

OP: I would report this merchant to the credit card processor. (not your bank, but VISA, Amex, MC etc.). They may be able to fire off a warning shot to the hotel to let it go.

Good idea, worth a shot. I also thought customers could not be sued by the merchant after successfully filing a chargeback, but I will certainly contact VISA and see what they have to say.

 

[Bmcgee3]

The hotel likely has this as part of their agreement with the customer. As such, the hotel would only need to show, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the OP and/or his guests did, in fact, smoke in the room.

Yes, that too.

The CC is not the one threatening to sue. The OP would need to refer to his contract with the hotel.

Thank you for this information. I booked through priceline.com (already contacted them they told me to settle it with the merchant) so i'm assuming the only contract I have the will hotel is what I signed on check-in which was just a general guest contact information sheet, however I did sign a no smoking sheet as it is a non-smoking hotel, which I was absolutely fine with as I am a non smoker. So it's not that they are alleging $500 in damages they are saying $500 is the fee associated with violating the policy, not sure if that changes anything.

Given that, in terms of proving I smoked in the room by a preponderance of the evidence, is two employees saying they smelled smoke enough to do so?

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

I'm curious how it is you live in California and Hawaii. Also factored in to the preponderance of the evidence is the clear evidence the hotel is not in the habit of attempting to enforce the charge unless they feel they are correct. The only other public record I have found, was published by the guest admitting they had been smoking and were charged.

 

[Bmcgee3]

I'm curious how it is you live in California and Hawaii. Also factored in to the preponderance of the evidence is the clear evidence the hotel is not in the habit of attempting to enforce the charge unless they feel they are correct. The only other public record I have found, was published by the guest admitting they had been smoking and were charged.

I was on vacation in Hawaii, then went to Oregon, I live in CA. Not that any of that really matters. The hotel is not the habit of attempting to enforce a charge unless the feel they are correct? Are you serious? You haven't heard of hotels wrongfully charging guests bogus smoking or any other fees? I think any merchant/person trying to scam money out of a customer/person will attempt to enforce the charge/their claim. Through researching this matter I have found several false smoking charges, notable cases where a pregnant woman was charged a fee, or a housekeeper saw ashes on ledge and charged the guest. Quick google search shows me hotels are in fact in the habit of enforcing charge when they deem fit. Can't the same be said of me? Why would I go through this 2 months process of writing letter to my bank, to corporate, to the CEO, to the General Manager, to the BBB, the oregon department of justice consumer affairs, and go to litigation if I had in fact smoked?
I have never experienced such ridiculous treatment by a merchant this is a major hotel chain and I think they should do some major cost benefit analysis.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Apparently 380 people had no problem and one who was charged admitted to smoking. I would say that is a pretty good record.