California Dui bac below .07 First Offence

[betachains]

There are no objective tests for staggering or blood shot eyes, and they are all dependent on the the arresting officer's report anyways. It is human nature that he/she will state what is needed to corroborate the arrest.

It is almost certain that the OP's arrest report will tick off "staggering", "smells of alcohol", etc. as probable causes. It is also likely that charges will never be filed.

Yes, the OP was drinking and driving and prob. should be thrown into a dungeon, but we can't have cops just putting the screws on willy-nilly because the alleged criminals assert their rights or otherwise get uppity.

 

[CdwJava]

There are no objective tests for staggering or blood shot eyes,

They ARE among the objective symptoms of alcohol impairment. They are neither the SOLE objective symptoms, nor do they necessarily indicate alcohol impairment by themselves. When taken together the observation of objective symptoms can rise to the level of probable cause to support an arrest.

and they are all dependent on the the arresting officer's report anyways.

No, the report is a reflection of the officer's observations, and at court the report will not be brought into evidence, the officer will testify as to his actions and observations.

It is human nature that he/she will state what is needed to corroborate the arrest.

Because if that's what happened to support the arrest, that's what would be written down. If there was no observed symptoms of impairment, and no arrest, there would be no report.

It is almost certain that the OP's arrest report will tick off "staggering", "smells of alcohol", etc. as probable causes. It is also likely that charges will never be filed.

Quite possibly on all counts. But, for alcohol DUI you will almost certainly have the odor of alcohol. "Staggering," maybe ... "unsteady gait," more likely.

Yes, the OP was drinking and driving and prob. should be thrown into a dungeon, but we can't have cops just putting the screws on willy-nilly because the alleged criminals assert their rights or otherwise get uppity.

And you KNOW this is what happened ... how? Or, you just know this happened because, of course, all cops are arrogant, egotistical and badge heavy?

 

[betachains]

The police officer writes his report after the arrest. I find it difficult to believe that his version of events would not support probable cause for an arrest.

I've dealt with plenty of police and prison guards (sheriff's deputies). They are not particularly arrogant in a social setting, and professionally, they are appropriately deferential. But, my contention is that the police report will always indicate probable cause. How can it be otherwise? For a DUI, it will mean staggering, poor driving, smell of alcohol/MJ: the police will always mark those down. Absent a 3rd party witness to the contrary, they are "objective" signs of DUI.

Obviously we only get the OP's side of the story. But it sounds like he sped and ran a red light, was drinking, and then got arrested by pissing off the cop. Do we, as a society, want this level of authority given to our LE? This already happens at the level of speeding tickets; should it also be routine for misdemeanors?

The best way to cut down on DUI's is just to install interlocks on all cars. Then we can end this vast industry which allows cops to infringe on civil liberties, third-tier school lawyers to make a living, "counselors" to run DUI schools with zero proven benefit, and enormous costs to the judicial system. DUI is bad, and we already have the means to hit it dramatically.

 

[CdwJava]

The police officer writes his report after the arrest. I find it difficult to believe that his version of events would not support probable cause for an arrest.

<sigh> Because if there was no arrest, there would be no report. Of course the arrest report would support the probable cause for the arrest.

I've dealt with plenty of police and prison guards (sheriff's deputies).

Since you refer to "prison guards" as "sheriff's deputies" you are in a place I am not familiar with as I don't know of any state prisons that use deputies. County jails, yes ... prisons, no.

But, my contention is that the police report will always indicate probable cause.

Generally, yes. If they make an arrest the presumption is that they developed probable cause to support the arrest. Once again, no surprise.

For a DUI, it will mean staggering, poor driving, smell of alcohol/MJ: the police will always mark those down.

Something, but not necessarily all. Many DUIs are stopped without observed bad driving or even without "staggering."

Absent a 3rd party witness to the contrary, they are "objective" signs of DUI.

Even if there was a third party witness, they are still "objective" indications of impairment. Unless, of course, the officer was lying ... which, I suppose, is the thrust of your entire argument here - that officers lie for grins and giggles.

The best way to cut down on DUI's is just to install interlocks on all cars.

Alcohol DUIs, perhaps.

Then we can end this vast industry which allows cops to infringe on civil liberties, third-tier school lawyers to make a living, "counselors" to run DUI schools with zero proven benefit, and enormous costs to the judicial system. DUI is bad, and we already have the means to hit it dramatically.

Sounds like you have a mission to embark upon! Have at it! Let us know when you have created your lobbying group and web page!

 

[tranquility]

If someone is staggering, they need to be off the road. Major coordination issues is drunk (or stoned) and is not just under the influence. People so impaired are the source of most DUI deaths.

 

[betachains]

If someone is staggering, they need to be off the road. Major coordination issues is drunk (or stoned) and is not just under the influence. People so impaired are the source of most DUI deaths.

Yes, of course staggering drunks should be punished. In the context of the OP, he was arrested in part because he pissed off the arresting officer. Was the OP staggering? Or had blood shot eyes? Or weaved in traffic? We don't know, but I would bet the arrest report will check all 3, and others.

I am not saying that police consciously lie, but being humans their reports will put the arrests in their best possible light.

 

[CdwJava]

If one is arrested for DUI, I would expect one or more observed indicators of DUI to be present in the report. If not, then ghe officer either committed a criminal act or writes really cruddy paper. Whether the observed indicators in this instance include weaving, staggering or blood shot eyes, we don't know. I will say that in my last DUI arrest I had NO observed "weaving" (though the donuts he did in the intersection with his lights off at 3:15 AM were mentioned), but I did have "unsteady gait" (as he ran from his car to his front door in an unintentional zig-zag pattern), and his eyes WERE bloodshot. An odor of an alcoholic beverage also emanated from his person. But, I have had DUI arrests where none of those three things were present. They are among several indicators and not, by any means, the sole indicators.

 

[betachains]

...

Since you refer to "prison guards" as "sheriff's deputies" you are in a place I am not familiar with as I don't know of any state prisons that use deputies. County jails, yes ... prisons, no.


....

OT: I don't know what to call the guards from the prisons . We just nod at each other and go about our business.

The inmates are mostly very polite and respectful. I am sure they behave differently elsewhere.

 

[cocofan888]

If the cop is to believed, he arrested you just because you refused the FST's : i.e., just to show who is boss.

Did you blow 0.07 at the scene (prior to arrest) or at the station (after arrest)? Makes a big difference.

I blew at the station

 

[CdwJava]

OT: I don't know what to call the guards from the prisons . We just nod at each other and go about our business.

You work in a state prison somewhere?

Out here they are most often referred to as "correctional officers."

 

[cocofan888]

The OP wrote that he was arrested and then transported to the station for a breath test. Hence the reason I presume that it is the required test.


But, it is always a possibility. And I brought it up only to point out that not all DUIs will have BACs at or greater than .08, and drug DUIs do not have a BAC at all (unless in conjunction with alcohol - which is relatively common).


One would presume that the objective signs of impairment were present prior to the arrest since that would justify the arrest. If there was no probable cause for the arrest, the OP may well have a nice cash settlement pending.


If you have not been drinking or drank a little a long time ago, then submitting to the FSTs is probably the best way to clear yourself and get out of there. If you have been drinking, then refusing the FSTs might be the best bet ... though refusing the mandated chemical test can be a bad idea.

How about, I just won't drink and drive!!! Won't Ever be subject to this again or needing to take FSTs.

As for the comments about, "arrested for refusal of FSTs" whether he did or not, I don't or won't hold it against him. He is trying to doing his job. He probably felt that my bac was going to be above .08 and there was something there.

But CDW, You are probably correct that he needs more training

But, Just call this a wake up call for me. To NEVER DRINK AND DRIVE AGAIN!!!! Spending a night in the drunk tank was not fun at all!!!

 

[Isis1]

How about, I just won't drink and drive!!! Won't Ever be subject to this again or needing to take FSTs.

As for the comments about, "arrested for refusal of FSTs" whether he did or not, I don't or won't hold it against him. He is trying to doing his job. He probably felt that my bac was going to be above .08 and there was something there.

But CDW, You are probably correct that he needs more training

But, Just call this a wake up call for me. To NEVER DRINK AND DRIVE AGAIN!!!! Spending a night in the drunk tank was not fun at all!!!

oh you haven't lived until you've had a jail burrito and the red water they pass off as punch while courtesy flushing.

like you, i learned my lesson almost 10 years ago. to this day....i still shudder when i drive by Lynnwood Jail. crying while clutching my pillow while some very large muscular bald woman under my bunk is trying to verbally comfort me.

 

[betachains]

You work in a state prison somewhere?

Out here they are most often referred to as "correctional officers."

No, but I occasionally work at hospitals which have contracts to handle elective surgical care for their local state prisons. Once a week, there would be a boatload of inmates and correctional officers coming through. I think most of the hospital personnel just refer to them as guards; I don't think I have ever heard anyone call them correctional officers.

They (correctional officers) always seem happy to be away from their usual environment, and just spend a few hours yakking with the nurses, and watching operations.

 

[CdwJava]

No, but I occasionally work at hospitals which have contracts to handle elective surgical care for their local state prisons. Once a week, there would be a boatload of inmates and correctional officers coming through. I think most of the hospital personnel just refer to them as guards; I don't think I have ever heard anyone call them correctional officers.

They (correctional officers) always seem happy to be away from their usual environment, and just spend a few hours yakking with the nurses, and watching operations.

"Guards" is also common.

And, yeah, I think they tend to be much more at ease when chatting with "normal" people rather than inmates. You have to be on guard all the time around inmates as you never know when you might be the target of a sudden attack. It's a stressful job and I am glad I never worked in a state prison. A county jail is a much more controlled environment, and where I worked for a couple of years was a pre-sentence facility so we didn't have the problem with massive "yard" populations and fights. 30 inmates in the pod dayroom was about as massive as it got, and 15 was more common.