I feel harassed

[justalayman]

Interesting.

He walked up on the car, passenger side, window was down, leaned down to look in the car and asked what we were up to and if I'd been drinking tonight. Then he told us how the car smelled like weed and so he could now search it.

hang on there. Carl (cdwjava) works out there. He has this stuff down. I am poking holes..

 

[CdwJava]

...admittedly the boys are back in town. I can imagine the deja-vu for them...

The advantage of being a small town cop is that they know the usual suspects. One way to keep crime down is to address these usual suspects and let them know they are bein gwatched. if they aren't doing anything, eventually the cops will get bored and move on to something else.

What is "an exigency" in this case?

The odor of marijuana and the fact you are in a motor vehicle tends to provide the exigency as the vehicle is mobile.

Well the cops just sort of said they were searching...I didn't feel in a position to decline.

Sounds like they conducted the search with (arguably) your consent.

"can" and "often" - under what circumstances?

As with ANY 4th Amendment issue, each situation must be evaluated on its own merits and not on some blanket generic fact pattern.

has there been any activity regarding the smell as PC since the allowance of medical MJ? It would seem that since it is lawful in many situations, the smell alone is no longer indicative of a crime.

Even if the driver had a valid medical marijuana card, an officer who can smell the marijuana from a place where he has a right to be (like outside the door or window) can still search the vehicle. (Strasburg (2007) 148 Cal.App.4th 1052.) There are numerous cases that support a search of a vehicle based upon the odor of marijuana.

Consider also that the odor of alcohol - a legal substance - is, likewise, sufficient to support a search of a vehicle for open containers or unlawful (underage) possession.

Marijuana may be granted a special place in CA law as the only criminal offense to be purged after two years (a boon that even traffic tickets do not enjoy), but they are not so golden as to get a free pass when in a motor vehicle just like alcohol. If one needs to transport their dope ... er, medicine, from the dispensary to home, bag it and put it in the trunk, and do not get into the car with anything that has been around marijuana for a couple of weeks!

 

[sullyer]

The advantage of being a small town cop is that they know the usual suspects. One way to keep crime down is to address these usual suspects and let them know they are bein gwatched. if they aren't doing anything, eventually the cops will get bored and move on to something else.

How long's it take to get bored?? This isn't really a case of 'hardcore criminals' just smart a$$es. I think they're just enjoying themselves. Since getting back I've also walked past one who nodded and grinned at me - not a friendly community smile, it was a there's-some-fun grin. They must have some crime to fight somewhere.

Sounds like they conducted the search with (arguably) your consent.

Mmm. Silent consent? If I don't voice my opinion, I'm assumed to be consenting? This is the thing - if they say they have probable cause to search - then they can search? Even if I disputed. I got the feeling that these searches were happening regardless (and that's been my experience in the past). If they don't find anything - then they don't have to justify it - unless I complain. If they were to find weed, well then yeah, it probably did smell like weed.
And if I complain - what happens? I say, leave me alone, it never smells like weed! They say, yeah it did. Not really much room for an argument is there...How do you even argue about a sense of smell?
And if it happens continually, and with different cops - that just kind of reinforces to whoever received the complaint that it probably does smell like weed...

lol....I'm screwed.

Should I buy them some chocolates and say sorry, I was a teenager, please don't search my car another 20 times? One of my friends suggested donuts but I don't think that would help the situation.

 

[CdwJava]

How long's it take to get bored??

That depends. We're cynical by nature, so it can take a while to convince us that you're no longer a risk to the community ... especially if your past was noteworthy.

This isn't really a case of 'hardcore criminals' just smart a$$es.

That makes it so much more likely that the cops will back off.

Actually, since that attitude tends to grate on a person, the cops (being persons) are more likely to recall the attitude and believe that there is some underlying nefarious activity ... or, at least, they may be far more open to the possibility.

I think they're just enjoying themselves. Since getting back I've also walked past one who nodded and grinned at me - not a friendly community smile, it was a there's-some-fun grin. They must have some crime to fight somewhere.

Maybe they think you're it. But, if you know of some "real" crime going on, perhaps you'd care to point it out to them.

Mmm. Silent consent? If I don't voice my opinion, I'm assumed to be consenting?

Could be.

As with any 4th Amendment issue, it would have be evaluated upon the totality of the circumstances present in that particular case.

This is the thing - if they say they have probable cause to search - then they can search?

When coupled with an exigency (which a car very often creates), yes. But, again, a court would have top view the totality of the circumstances.

Even if I disputed. I got the feeling that these searches were happening regardless (and that's been my experience in the past).

If so, and without probable cause, they'd be unlawful. However, the officers are under no legal obligation to articulate to you what their PC might be.

If they don't find anything - then they don't have to justify it - unless I complain.

Pretty much. Just as with any wrong done to you by anyone be it neighbor, stranger, bad guy, ex-friend, etc. - if you don't complain, nothing will happen.

And if I complain - what happens?

Someone will look into it. How hard they will look or what can happen depends on factors I can only speculate on. If the officer(s) involved are already problem officers, a complaint can give the agency the ammunition it might need to discipline or let go a problem officer. No complaint, no grounds for action.

Should I buy them some chocolates and say sorry, I was a teenager, please don't search my car another 20 times? One of my friends suggested donuts but I don't think that would help the situation.

Try croissants and a Starbucks gift card.

 

[sullyer]

That makes it so much more likely that the cops will back off.

Actually, since that attitude tends to grate on a person, the cops (being persons) are more likely to recall the attitude and believe that there is some underlying nefarious activity ... or, at least, they may be far more open to the possibility.

lol. Yeeeeeah. I know. I almost feel like it's worse to be smart a$$ than to be a reformed career criminal...
I'm going to try to not say too much - I know they will stop me again. Though during the second car search I did comment, loudly, to a friend, "they must have that new pine weed here now". Which I don't think is too bad. Since the car smells like pine. And the air freshener is obvious. Though I did later think, well now they probably think I'm keeping up to date with developments in the pot world.

...Maybe silly question - there's no weed that smells like pine is there?? I never actually got as far into pot-world as the hometown cops seem to assume. Maybe I should change my air freshener...

If so, and without probable cause, they'd be unlawful. However, the officers are under no legal obligation to articulate to you what their PC might be.

And honestly, I do feel these last 2 searches, and others in the past, and searches friends have also been put through - have been unlawful. Ok, the thing is most of the people involved have had at least one pot charge/conviction/case in the past - so I understand that really we don't have the integrity to stand up and say, that car did not smell like weed! And have anyone listen to us.
I guess my biggest argument is that no cop in the last few years, from where I live now, has ever thought my car smells like weed. Which isn't even a very good argument.
It seems like a very difficult thing to fight when it's an unlawful search based on smell...

At the end of the day I'm not even hoping to start a fight about rights. Just co-exist. Maybe I'll just try to make peace.

Try croissants and a Starbucks gift card.

Yeah, we'll they're not all getting their own Starbucks card.

 

[justalayman]

try an in car video camera, or several of them. Nothing like covering all the angles.

 

[sullyer]

try an in car video camera, or several of them. Nothing like covering all the angles.

Yeah, that would be good just for the whole process. But it doesn't record smell...

 

[justalayman]

Yeah, that would be good just for the whole process. But it doesn't record smell...

But it does record the statements, including the inflection and tone of voice, along with the actions of all parties.



I am curious; you said you haven't smoked pot for over 2 years. The car is clean. You never did respond to my question about your friends smoking pot but I gave you the benefit of the doubt since you have not smoked for so long. It would be unusual for that and to have friends that smoke pot in your car.


are you not incensed they make the claim at all? Personally, since I nor anybody I associate with regularly, do not smoke pot, I would be quite bothered by the claim it could be smelled in my car. It would be an obvious lie and because of that, a blatant violation of my rights. I would not sit still with such accusations, especially since doing drugs becomes a very big problem in my line of work. Rumors can cause me a lot of problems.

 

[CdwJava]

As a note, the odor of marijuana is quite pervasive. For those of us that neither smoke cigarettes nor smoke weed, even residual odor can stand out like a sore thumb. If clothes are not frequently washed (and few jackets, sweaters, and thick covering shirts are) then the odor could remain for a very long time. Likewise if the people in the car have been in a place where weed was being used. All because THEY were not smoking does not mean that they are not traveling with the aroma.

As for those air fresheners, really, they don't work - and too many send up a flare to a dedicated dope officer. Just as gum gives you a wonderful minty fresh Budweiser breath, those air fresheners merely allow for an intoxicating sinsemilla-pine aroma.

 

[sullyer]

But it does record the statements, including the inflection and tone of voice, along with the actions of all parties.

True, it would.

I am curious; you said you haven't smoked pot for over 2 years. The car is clean. You never did respond to my question about your friends smoking pot but I gave you the benefit of the doubt since you have not smoked for so long. It would be unusual for that and to have friends that smoke pot in your car.

The friends have all either stopped - a couple rarely do. We live in a few different places and are all back in hometown at the moment. Since we've been here, I haven't been around them smoking, or seen any, noone's climbed in my car smelling like pot. No signs at all of the stuff...

are you not incensed they make the claim at all? Personally, since I nor anybody I associate with regularly, do not smoke pot, I would be quite bothered by the claim it could be smelled in my car. It would be an obvious lie and because of that, a blatant violation of my rights. I would not sit still with such accusations, especially since doing drugs becomes a very big problem in my line of work. Rumors can cause me a lot of problems.

I'm on the way to being incensed, at the moment we think it's ridiculous. I figure that they're intentionally messing with us, trying to prove/remind us they're watching/they're in charge/whatever. I think that what they're doing is low, and yes, they've been blatant lies- and we ALL know it. If it goes on all summer it's going to irritate the heck out of me. If it's their way of saying 'welcome back' and they stop it - I don't think that's very professional but I don't feel like I have much to stand on with my history - and I already knew they didn't like me. I'm probably not as incensed as you would be because of my previous encounters with them - I know how they go about business - you could say 'bullying tactics', they're quite forceful with young guys, with getting compliance for searches etc. And to be honest, the thing is that they do target people who 'sometimes' do break the law/or have been known to - when they step over the line with that section of society, nobody cares much...I think they do blatantly violate that group's rights - but who would listen and how do you prove it?

It's a difficult thing to handle in the moment. If I say no, I don't consent to a car search. I know it's going to aggravate the situation. I can't see them backing down. Maybe I should challenge them to get a K9. Even though I've been involved in K9 searches before, and for some reason, in a small town, you sit around and wait and wait for the dog to show up. (it's part of the messing with you...)

 

[sullyer]

As a note, the odor of marijuana is quite pervasive. For those of us that neither smoke cigarettes nor smoke weed, even residual odor can stand out like a sore thumb. If clothes are not frequently washed (and few jackets, sweaters, and thick covering shirts are) then the odor could remain for a very long time. Likewise if the people in the car have been in a place where weed was being used. All because THEY were not smoking does not mean that they are not traveling with the aroma.

I do agree with all this. I immediately notice the smell of weed on other people, at a party. I have not noticed the smell of weed in the last 3 weeks.

As for those air fresheners, really, they don't work - and too many send up a flare to a dedicated dope officer.

lol. Now I get the impression you think the car probably does smell like weed. Well, you said you were cynical.
I bought this car recently, I don't know what the last owner was doing, if they were living in it or what. But the car needed something.
And the air freshener actually is working. For it's intended (innocent) purpose. lol.

 

[CdwJava]

One air freshener is fine ... a collection of ten hanging from the rearview mirror and another stack next to each A/C blower, that's another.