How to prove violation of first rights of refusal?

[boomama]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida
My ex has started leaving my child with various family members during his visitation weekends, despite my numerous offers to watch her if he chooses to go somewhere. His family is also complicit in doing so, telling my child things like, 'no, daddy was here her just left really early' or "daddy was just sleeping when you woke up, thats why auntie came to you in the middle of the night'. How do I prove this to the courts, short of hiring a private detective? And can family members of his that participate in this charade be legally liable?

 

[AnonUserName]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida
My ex has started leaving my child with various family members during his visitation weekends, despite my numerous offers to watch her if he chooses to go somewhere. His family is also complicit in doing so, telling my child things like, 'no, daddy was here her just left really early' or "daddy was just sleeping when you woke up, thats why auntie came to you in the middle of the night'. How do I prove this to the courts, short of hiring a private detective? And can family members of his that participate in this charade be legally liable?

Does your court order address right of first refusal? If so, please provide the a act wording minus any identifying information.

 

[Silverplum]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida
My ex has started leaving my child with various family members during his visitation weekends, despite my numerous offers to watch her if he chooses to go somewhere. His family is also complicit in doing so, telling my child things like, 'no, daddy was here her just left really early' or "daddy was just sleeping when you woke up, thats why auntie came to you in the middle of the night'. How do I prove this to the courts, short of hiring a private detective? And can family members of his that participate in this charade be legally liable?

Please keep all of your custody questions in a single thread (your first thread.). Thanks.

 

[boomama]

Does your court order address right of first refusal? If so, please provide the a act wording minus any identifying information.

It states 'each parent must offer the other parent the opportunity to care for the child before using a child care provider for any period exceeding 4 hours'

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Soooo, what proof do you have he leaves the child for more than 4 hours? If he goes out at 1 am, were you planning on picking up the child and returning it at 5 am?

 

[Just Blue]

It states 'each parent must offer the other parent the opportunity to care for the child before using a child care provider for any period exceeding 4 hours'

Define, per CO, "care provider".

 

[boomama]

Define, per CO, "care provider".

Anyone watching the child besides himself

 

[AnonUserName]

Anyone watching the child besides himself

How far apart do you live?

 

[Proserpina]

What if Dad is doing nothing more than allowing the child to visit with his family during his parenting time?

 

[LdiJ]

What if Dad is doing nothing more than allowing the child to visit with his family during his parenting time?

That is a very important factor to bring into the mix because it effects both parents and the child. When parents split up extended family, grandparents, aunts, uncles etc., only get to see the child on one parent's time...at that is when ROFR clauses can get tricky.

So, grandma asks "can we have the child overnight on Friday night (dad's time)". Dad says yes to grandparent time, and then decides to take advantage of that to go out with friends. Is that extended family time or is that babysitting time that qualifies for ROFR? If mom insists that its time that qualifies for ROFR, what is she going to do if her parents ask for grandparent time in a similar manner?

Yet, at the same time, a situation where the parent is basically abdicating all of their parenting time to extended family is not acceptable either. First, it defeats the purpose of parenting time, and second, it creates a false sense of entitlement with the extended family.

So mom, you have to really think about the whole situation and how it would effect you and your extended family as well.

 

[Eekamouse]

Mom looks like a bit of a control freak and uncaring of whether her child gets to spend any time with extended family.

 

[Proserpina]

That is a very important factor to bring into the mix because it effects both parents and the child. When parents split up extended family, grandparents, aunts, uncles etc., only get to see the child on one parent's time...at that is when ROFR clauses can get tricky.

So, grandma asks "can we have the child overnight on Friday night (dad's time)". Dad says yes to grandparent time, and then decides to take advantage of that to go out with friends. Is that extended family time or is that babysitting time that qualifies for ROFR? If mom insists that its time that qualifies for ROFR, what is she going to do if her parents ask for grandparent time in a similar manner?

Yet, at the same time, a situation where the parent is basically abdicating all of their parenting time to extended family is not acceptable either. First, it defeats the purpose of parenting time, and second, it creates a false sense of entitlement with the extended family.

So mom, you have to really think about the whole situation and how it would effect you and your extended family as well.

Exactly - because anything she tries to enforce with Dad during HIS time, Dad can simply turn around and enforce it during HER parenting time.

Mom, as LdiJ said, you SERIOUSLY need to think about this. Is kiddo never going to be allowed to sleepover at a friend's house during your parenting time, for example?

 

[stealth2]

Unfortunately, too many use it as a power tool.

 

[LdiJ]

A right of first refusal doesn't require you to immediately run that child over to the other parents house or even require that parent to take them....What it ALLOWS is discussion....

If my daughter were sleeping over one of my ex's family members house without either parent being there, i WOULD like to be informed, if my daughter is going to a sleep over, i WOULD like to know where and when....A ROFR doesn't eliminate my daughters ability to do these things, it just allows the other parent to be informed, have a decision in the matter.

A ROFR is a GREAT thing when not abused, it allows both parents to be involved in the discussion

No, what it allows is the parent whose parenting time it is not, has the right to care for the child if the other parent is not available (or in this case, will not be available for 4 or more hours). It is not an order for a discussion. Yes, it can be a good thing if not abused, however far too often one parent chooses to abuse it.

 

[NYCTeacher]

No, what it allows is the parent whose parenting time it is not, has the right to care for the child if the other parent is not available (or in this case, will not be available for 4 or more hours). It is not an order for a discussion. Yes, it can be a good thing if not abused, however far too often one parent chooses to abuse it.

But an order for discussion is EXACTLY what it is, when one parent is going to be unavailable to the child for 4hrs or longer they HAVE to call the other parent and discuss it, there is no option....It allows both parents to discuss the plans for the child during those 4hrs and come to a shared decision on it....If a child is going to be at the grandparents while parent A is at work for 8hrs, they call Parent B and discuss what is happening...Parent A and Parent B can discuss together is that is the best available option and if it would be better if child was with Parent B during that time. It forces Pure Co-Parenting

Yes, some mothers abuse this, but, IMO, it is much more common that it is used as a compromise.