Dealer can't provide title, can I cancel deal and win in court

[lundbythebay]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Missouri

I traded a car in June and the dealer still cannot provide paper work. I asked for my vehicle back, but they already sold it. I have now filed a small claim case. They now say if they can take the car and get a IDOD, they will be able to get the title. I just want my vehicle or the money I listed my vehicle for. Do I have to cooperate and let them now after 2 1/2 months take the car for the IDOD. I feel the deal should just be cancelled and I should be compensated, but what will small claims say?

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

You are not going to prevail in court if you obstruct their legal ability to obtain the title.

To title a motor vehicle in the state of Missouri, the owner must submit the following:

The Certificate of Title, properly signed over to you (see instructions), or Manufacturer's Statement of Origin (MSO);
A signed Application for Missouri Title and License (Form 108);
An identification number and odometer (ID/OD) inspection, if ownership of the motor vehicle was transferred to you on a title issued by another state or country. This inspection can be completed by a Missouri authorized inspection station. A current safety inspection will satisfy this requirement;
An Odometer Disclosure Statement (Form 3019), if applicable; and
A notarized Lien Release (Form 4809), if applicable.

 

[BL]

You are not going to prevail in court if you obstruct their legal ability to obtain the title.

The way I read this , is that the dealer can not produce a title .

The inspection is separate from the title .

OP , inquire to the DMV what exactly is needed for a lost or stolen title?

Not in OP's State , but I just purchased a used Auto from a dealer ( dealer handled all DMV transactions ) , but the old title was in a prior owner's name.

I did receive a title in my name however.

See where I am going with this ?

Click here for more information about curbstoning. Referenced from buying an auto from . http://dor.mo.gov/motorv/buying.php

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

It simply appears to me the vehicle was obtained from out of state. Like every other state I am aware of, they require a vin check to make sure the vehicle and title match. If you remember the thread about a month ago regarding the vin not matching a vehicle from auction, that is the reason the process is in place.

 

[BL]

It simply appears to me the vehicle was obtained from out of state. Like every other state I am aware of, they require a vin check to make sure the vehicle and title match. If you remember the thread about a month ago regarding the vin not matching a vehicle from auction, that is the reason the process is in place.

Don't recall reading that post.

What the OP wants is a title.

Dealer says they can not produce one, that they can get one through inspection.

Easy ,pick up the phone ,dial DMV ,or go in person and ask a supervising clerk.

 

[lundbythebay]

It simply appears to me the vehicle was obtained from out of state. Like every other state I am aware of, they require a vin check to make sure the vehicle and title match. If you remember the thread about a month ago regarding the vin not matching a vehicle from auction, that is the reason the process is in place.

I have made multiple trips to the DMV. First the wrong dealer was listed. Then the correct dealer put white out on the title and mutilated it. The dealer never processed the proper paperwork for owning it because it was really his mechanics car who title jumps through this dealer. So now he has had to go back and gather paperwork from two other MO dealers before him which in turn make the car considered as out of state(IL) hence the IDOD that he says he needs. I told him he could pick up the car, but he says that is not cooperating. Am I required to take on the expense and inconvenience of driving out an hour to his location. Will it be viewed as cooperating by just making it clear that he can come and get the vehicle?

He didn't even know he owned this vehicle until the last dealer spoke to him. He didn't have the secured POA nor did he provide an application for title. This has been a very complicated and tiresome ordeal. Then he sells the vehicle I traded him. And I am stuck with a useless vehicle that cannot be titled or plated. Thank for any guidance you can provide.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

So your claim is he sold you a vehicle he had no right to sell? I do not think a court will agree. Though he may certainly have screwed up the original title, it appears you are the obstacle to transfer. If it goes to court, expect the judge to award the dealer a significant amount for your lease of his vehicle.

 

[lundbythebay]

So your claim is he sold you a vehicle he had no right to sell? I do not think a court will agree. Though he may certainly have screwed up the original title, it appears you are the obstacle to transfer. If it goes to court, expect the judge to award the dealer a significant amount for your lease of his vehicle.

My claim is that he sold me a car that I have not been able to use for the past 2 1/2 months. It seems an excessive amount of time to get a title. I cannot title it, so I can't plate it, so I have had to maintain a different vehicle so that I can get back and forth to work. I am not sure how I am the obstacle, being that I have sent them the mutilated title and offered to let them pick up the car. It takes them weeks to act on anything because as he stated...it isn't a priority for him. That was until he was served with a small claims date. I must really have blinders on, because it sounds like you think I am the one in the wrong and I don't get it.

Out of curiosity, what is your career....are you a lawyer or a judge?

 

[BL]

I have made multiple trips to the DMV. First the wrong dealer was listed. Then the correct dealer put white out on the title and mutilated it. The dealer never processed the proper paperwork for owning it because it was really his mechanics car who title jumps through this dealer. So now he has had to go back and gather paperwork from two other MO dealers before him which in turn make the car considered as out of state(IL) hence the IDOD that he says he needs. I told him he could pick up the car, but he says that is not cooperating. Am I required to take on the expense and inconvenience of driving out an hour to his location. Will it be viewed as cooperating by just making it clear that he can come and get the vehicle?

He didn't even know he owned this vehicle until the last dealer spoke to him. He didn't have the secured POA nor did he provide an application for title. This has been a very complicated and tiresome ordeal. Then he sells the vehicle I traded him. And I am stuck with a useless vehicle that cannot be titled or plated. Thank for any guidance you can provide.

Again ,

OP , inquire to the DMV what exactly is needed for a lost or stolen title?

, or in your case ,

What did the DMV say that is need , not what the dealer said.

 

[TheGeekess]

My claim is that he sold me a car that I have not been able to use for the past 2 1/2 months. It seems an excessive amount of time to get a title. I cannot title it, so I can't plate it, so I have had to maintain a different vehicle so that I can get back and forth to work. I am not sure how I am the obstacle, being that I have sent them the mutilated title and offered to let them pick up the car. It takes them weeks to act on anything because as he stated...it isn't a priority for him. That was until he was served with a small claims date. I must really have blinders on, because it sounds like you think I am the one in the wrong and I don't get it.

Out of curiosity, what is your career....are you a lawyer or a judge?

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[justalayman]

The way I read this , is that the dealer can not produce a title .

The inspection is separate from the title .

OP , inquire to the DMV what exactly is needed for a lost or stolen title?

Not in OP's State , but I just purchased a used Auto from a dealer ( dealer handled all DMV transactions ) , but the old title was in a prior owner's name.

I did receive a title in my name however.

See where I am going with this ?

Click here for more information about curbstoning. Referenced from buying an auto from . http://dor.mo.gov/motorv/buying.php

Most, if not all states you will find the title "skips" the dealer and is transferred from the prior owner to the end purchaser with the dealer often having to sign a statement on the title that it was transferred through them.





lundbythebay:


If the dealer cannot provide a title, you have valid basis to rescind the contract as that is an implied, if not actually expressed term of the sale unless otherwise noted. Your issue will be in establishing what might be due to you for trade in car.

There are two arguments:

1. the trade in value set in the contract
2. fair market value



shoot for 2 because it is the only one you are returned to a pre-contract condition and if the value set in the contract is greater than FMV, you cannot support such a demand anyway which is generally a requirement in court.

It seems an excessive amount of time to get a title.

Yes, it is. In fact, 2 1/2 days is excessive since unless they represent themselves as the agent of an owner, they are expected to have the title on hand and able to be delivered upon the consummation of a sale.

 

[justalayman]

So your claim is he sold you a vehicle he had no right to sell? I do not think a court will agree. Though he may certainly have screwed up the original title, it appears you are the obstacle to transfer. If it goes to court, expect the judge to award the dealer a significant amount for your lease of his vehicle.

I disagree. The buyer has no obligation to be agreeable to anything other than holding out his hand and accepting the keys and paperwork and expecting the title to be delivered via USPS after the state processes it because the dealer sent it in within a very short time after the contract was consummated.



the dealer cannot deliver a title due to issues the OP has no involvement with. Dealer is obligated to deliver a title to a purchaser. It appears he can't. He has no option other than rescinding the sale.

 

[BL]

Most, if not all states you will find the title "skips" the dealer and is transferred from the prior owner to the end purchaser with the dealer often having to sign a statement on the title that it was transferred through them.

Yes , I was provided a copy from the dealer of title from prior owner.

The dealer however handle all DMV transactions.

Seems something amiss here for sure , and I'm on the buyers side.

To hear how to get a vaid titled , I'd want to hear it from DMV not talking Mr. Ed.

It would also give me more ammunition in court.

 

[lundbythebay]

Most, if not all states you will find the title "skips" the dealer and is transferred from the prior owner to the end purchaser with the dealer often having to sign a statement on the title that it was transferred through them.


lundbythebay:


If the dealer cannot provide a title, you have valid basis to rescind the contract as that is an implied, if not actually expressed term of the sale unless otherwise noted. Your issue will be in establishing what might be due to you for trade in car.

There are two arguments:

1. the trade in value set in the contract
2. fair market value



shoot for 2 because it is the only one you are returned to a pre-contract condition and if the value set in the contract is greater than FMV, you cannot support such a demand anyway which is generally a requirement in court.


Yes, it is. In fact, 2 1/2 days is excessive since unless they represent themselves as the agent of an owner, they are expected to have the title on hand and able to be delivered upon the consummation of a sale.

He is trying to say he could sell it because they did have a title. Yes, I was given a title, but not a usable one, ultimately requiring me to give it back to him. I traded a suburban for a lancer because I needed better gas mileage. We had our vehicles listed for the same amount. My NADA was higher and theirs was lower, but I thought the money saved in gas would be worth it......little did I know I would have such issues. I have asked for the list price as it was the lower of two (list vs Nada), but they will not entertain this.

 

[justalayman]

rescission of the contract and fair market value for your trade in. That is what it should be.

He is trying to say he could sell it because they did have a title. Yes, I was given a title, but not a usable one, ultimately requiring me to give it back to him.

so he did not have a VALID certificate of title and has not been able to obtain one either.



have you checked; does this guy have a valid dealership license?