Reducing pay for unpaid hours to minimum wage?

[NvrEndingLife82]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

I currently work at a nursing home as an STNA. I have worked there for awhile. Recently, a friend and I were talking about the employment contract I had to sign when I was hired. She was pretty adamant that some of the terms were illegal and unenforceable. I was not sure, and I am curious, so I thought I would ask. A few of them, I could not find categories for on here. But, one of them would fit this category.

In the employment contract, it states that if you are fired or fail to provide and work out a two week notice, any unpaid hours will be paid at a minimum wage rate. So even if your current pay rate is $20 an hour, if you are fired or quit without a two week notice, all hours on your final pay check will be paid at $7.85 an hour.

I am not planning on leaving this job anytime soon, but I was just curious if it was illegal. Now, I just have to figure out what category the other questions/topics fit into.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

I currently work at a nursing home as an STNA. I have worked there for awhile. Recently, a friend and I were talking about the employment contract I had to sign when I was hired. She was pretty adamant that some of the terms were illegal and unenforceable. I was not sure, and I am curious, so I thought I would ask. A few of them, I could not find categories for on here. But, one of them would fit this category.

In the employment contract, it states that if you are fired or fail to provide and work out a two week notice, any unpaid hours will be paid at a minimum wage rate. So even if your current pay rate is $20 an hour, if you are fired or quit without a two week notice, all hours on your final pay check will be paid at $7.85 an hour.

I am not planning on leaving this job anytime soon, but I was just curious if it was illegal. Now, I just have to figure out what category the other questions/topics fit into.

Legally, they cannot change the rate of pay for the hours WORKED, but they can pay out vacation pay and other benefits at minimum wage.

 

[cbg]

And under Federal law and the law of a good many states, since you have been notified in advance of the reduction that it will take place under such and such conditions, it is legal because you received prior notification of the reduction.

 

[swalsh411]

If you're talking about hours already worked but not paid, it would be illegal to retroactively decrease the pay rate. For future hours worked, it would be legal.

And under Federal law and the law of a good many states, since you have been notified in advance of the reduction that it will take place under such and such conditions, it is legal because you received prior notification of the reduction.

I hope you're not saying that an employer notifying an employee that they are going to do something illegal somehow makes it legal.

 

[cbg]

No, I'm not, and you should know better. You also should know what I'm talking about. If you don't, I'm ashamed of you.

Federal law does NOT prohibit retroactive decreases as long as the decrease does not go below minimum wage. If you disagree, post a link to the Federal statute that prohibits it. I'll wait. But I won't hold my breath.

Many states have taken the position that if you tell an employee in January that if they do X their wage will be reduced to minimum wage, and in March they do X and their wage is reduced to minimum wage, it does NOT violate any statutes limiting retroactive wage reductions because they'd known for two months that the wage decrease would happen. It's ONLY if the employee is given no notice at all, including notice provided in a handbook or other hiring documents, that such limits, (which are state specific and do not exist in all states), apply.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

cbg is correct. That is prior notice that you will incur a pay decrease under certain circumstances. When the circumstances occur you already understand the outcome.

 

[swalsh411]

cbg is correct. That is prior notice that you will incur a pay decrease under certain circumstances. When the circumstances occur you already understand the outcome.

An employer can't give notice to make something illegal legal. In most States (and I have not done research for OH in particular), retroactive pay decreases are not legal. That means if you are involuntarily termed (with no notice) in the middle of the pay period, you pay rate cannot be legally retroactively reduced for hours already worked, even if you have been told in advance this would happen. It doesn't matter if the employee agreed to it; it's not legal regardless. (the same way a non-exempt employee cannot legally "agree" not to be paid overtime they are owed under FLSA)

You also should know what I'm talking about.

Yes I know this

 

[cbg]

No, you are mistaken. Retroactive pay decreases are only illegal if the employee has not received notice of them in most states that have such laws at all. What's illegal is the failure to notify the employee - not the decrease itself.

 

[swalsh411]

I'm only talking about an immediate involuntary termination. Telling somebody on a Friday that they are fired and that all the hours they worked that week would be at a lower rate is the very definition of a retroactive pay decrease. That they were told in advance that it's the employers policy to reduce their pay retroactively doesn't make it legal. The "notification" of the rate change is when they are fired, not when they are hired and agree to the policy, and it would not be legal to reduce their pay for hours already worked. (in States where such a retroactive decrease is illegal)

 

[justalayman]

went through this on another forum . The end result of the discussion was:

as long as there was not anything in the OP's state's law specifically disallowing this, it was legal and enforceable. It is a matter of contract law rather than labor law.

You can agree to a lot of things in a contract that would otherwise be illegal.

 

[swalsh411]

went through this on another forum . The end result of the discussion was:

as long as there was not anything in the OP's state's law specifically disallowing this, it was legal and enforceable. It is a matter of contract law rather than labor law.

You can agree to a lot of things in a contract that would otherwise be illegal.

I could be mistaken but cbg seems to be arguing that even in States when retroactive decreases are illegal, an employee can agree in advance that their pay can be reduced retroactively if they are involuntarily terminated. But I could be wrong.

 

[cbg]

But the poster specifically said that this notice was given to her WHEN SHE WAS HIRED. Therefore the definition you are using is irrelevant to the situation since no matter when she works the hours, it will be after she was provided with this notice.

 

[swalsh411]

But the poster specifically said that this notice was given to her WHEN SHE WAS HIRED. Therefore the definition you are using is irrelevant to the situation since no matter when she works the hours, it will be after she was provided with this notice.

Notice that something may happen is not notice. Actual notice would be on the day of termination, in which case reducing pay for hours already worked would be an illegal retroactive pay decrease. (if in a State which forbids those)

 

[swalsh411]

Let me put this another way.

Who thinks that a law that says "pay rate may not be reduced for hours already worked. period. end of sentence." actually means "pay rate can be reduced for hours already worked if you agree to this as a condition of employment"?

You cannot legally agree to something that is illegal.

 

[cbg]

I can't think of a single state where there is an across the board regulation that prohibits any and all retroactive decreases. In every state I can think of with the possible exception of California (and I am only singling out CA because they appear to be the exception to all rules) the prohibition is based around the lack of notification to the employee, NOT the direction of the pay reduction. I'm not going to say there can't have been one that I've missed, but it is by FAR more common, in those states that have such a statute to begin with, that notice of the decrease to the employee is the sticking point.

However, the point is moot because the poster's state has no laws regarding wage reductions. Ohio does not have any laws prohibiting a retroactive wage decrease. Therefore, regardless of what the law may or may not say in other states, in Ohio the clause in the poster's employment agreement IS LEGAL.