Advice needed?Attempting to sell my aunt's house when the house is in the will?

[Ohiogal]

Seriously!!! Do really think that is how a competent adult makes a will? In between 911 calls maybe??? This screams elder abuse and attorney misconduct IMO. OG, what is your take?

I think if an attorney would draw up a will for a client that is being coerced or is not competent, that attorney is risking disbarment. I don't believe the OP's story. I note how she participates for all she can get but it is her sister that is the evil one.

And even if the will includes the house -- if it is sold before auntie's death, it matters not.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

OP is afraid if they do not suck up the assets, the state will appoint a guardian and their administration fees will eat up the estate.

 

[Ohiogal]

OP is afraid if they do not suck up the assets, the state will appoint a guardian and their administration fees will eat up the estate.

Or that auntie's property will be sold to pay for her future medical care. This is all about greed. And since OP is greedy, she wants her sister out of the way. Even though she is just as bad as her sister (step-sister).

 

[anteater]

Even though she is just as bad as her sister (step-sister).

Heck, how do we know that the stepsister is "breaking bad." With all the confusing parts in OP's posts, it could well be that the stepsister is the responsible one.

 

[lockbox]

Well... I'm certainly lost.

At one point, the OP is talking about a revised will and POA's being drawn up. The next moment, the OP states:



????


Any attorney with an ounce of ethics will refuse to draw up documents if he/she has any doubt that the client is not legally competent.

And what does this mean?

I respect all your opinions as you all have the right to judge.I explain everything to you all how big of a mess this is.
I come to relize that my sister just used me so she can get on the will and become POA.With that said I want out.
With all repect in mind I need advice.
Does there have to be 2 power attorneys?
Do I have the right to change my mind to not be a power attorney?
If I decide to not be a power attorney will that revoke me from the will?

 

[lockbox]

Heck, how do we know that the stepsister is "breaking bad." With all the confusing parts in OP's posts, it could well be that the stepsister is the responsible one.

How would you know?

 

[anteater]

How would you know?

I don't. But I'm certainly not going to conclude that your stepsister is abusing your aunt based upon what you have written here.

Explain this contradiction:

The attorney walked out of his office to us stating he can't do this...

And, yet, you are talking as if this attorney drafted a will and power of attorney documents.


But, on other matters...

No, there do not need to be two agents acting under POA's.
No, you are not required to accept becoming an agent under a POA.
No, a POA does not affect a will.

 

[lockbox]

I don't. But I'm certainly not going to conclude that your stepsister is abusing your aunt based upon what you have written here.

Explain this contradiction:



And, yet, you are talking as if this attorney drafted a will and power of attorney documents.


But, on other matters...

No, there do not need to be two agents acting under POA's.
No, you are not required to accept becoming an agent under a POA.
No, a POA does not affect a will.

Thank you for answering the questions asked.
As for the questionNo, you are not required to accept becoming an agent under a POA.)During the changing of the will with the attorney I agreed to become a agent under POA.So,at that time I did accept.Do Ihave the right to change my mind "with draw"if I decide to?
As of now the papers haven't arrive thru the mail from the attorney for us to sign.Couldn't I just simply refuse to sign for POA?

I need to give a correction to this story for you all to better understand what is going on.Because,I see fingers pointing to me the OP.My aunt was always Mentally competent to make her own judgement.She was never found not competent.
During the appointment,The attorney opened his folder that held all of my aunt's history of past wills & POA's that was changed thru out the yrs.You must understand,this aunt was known thru out the yrs as the wealthest one of the families.With that said,many other family members was on the will from one time to another thru out the yrs.Why was the will changed so many times?Well, for many reasons one would.If a relationship goes bad she would pull them off the will.The aunt had the right to change her will anytime she seen fit to do so.The POA's that was asigned to my aunt thru out the yrs was never POA's of funds.Because,she was competent.The POA's that was asigned was only for taking her to doctor appointments and such.Not for funds.There are two types of POAs.One can be over funds and another for taking a love one to a doctor or saying yes or no on pulling the plug.There was never a POA for funds for my aunt.
With that said above,
When we took our aunt to the attorney to have the will changed.The attorney asked to talk to our aunt alone in his office before hand.We could hear the aunt and the attorney talking from the waiting room.The attorney asked our aunt why was she here today.The aunt replied "I don't know".After that the attorney walked out to us in the waiting room and said,I can't do this.I was your aunt's attorney for many yrs and she don't know who i am.And she doesn't know why she is here.I ask to speak with all my clients alone is how I do things he said to us.I then asked the attorney what do you sudjust we do?He replied lets go back to my office and talk more together.After that,he agreed to change the will and both POA's.He stated,since he feels our aunt is not competent at this time he will agree to asign the sister POA of funds.This 100% did happen.As thinking about it now I wonder what gives the attorney the right to state our aunt is not competent?He isn't a doctor.
I thought a doctor has to find someone not competent?I'm confused as much as you all are about this.What you see here in black & white is true.Why would I waste my time typing all of this if it wasn't true.I have no reason to blow smoke your way for what reason.

As I said before,this really isn't my sister as stated.Let's just say she's not a close relative.
No other family members are stepping up to the plate to lend a hand with our aunt.Because,they don't like her truth be said.Or they burned their bridges along time ago with my aunt.As I call this person my sister,the sister I know is right now selling anything that is not nailed down.She will make a mistake.And I don't want to be any part of it.Is why i feel I need to have my POA removed.If this happens she is on her own dinging her own hole.I'm on the will.I should just get off of the POA and set back and watch like everyone else does with wills and wait.

I want to call the police or someone about this but,what good would it really do.If I don't have hard proof of what she is doing I have no leg to stand on.She lives with my aunt and has all acsess to it all.Money does many things to people.To me this isn't worth going down with her.I want out as POA.Do I want the money/will.Who wouldn't truth be told.But,sometimes it isn't as green as you may think.I'm sure about time for the will there will be no money left.If you don't understand what I'm trying to say here.As of right now my aunt is competent until the papers are signed and turned in.The sister is selling everything now while the aunt is competent.I found the house for sale online when the house was agreed to be auctioned in the will.That's not the agreement.
Any other advice please?

 

[Ohiogal]

Sorry but no. The attorney could NOT make a POA for someone he believed was not competent. Not going to happen. Unless he wants disbarred. I see a lot of wrong things here and you are not going to convince me that you are an innocent flower. Not at all. And your stepsister -- now you are denying she is a close relative and she is not a sister at all. I call troll or con artist.

 

[anteater]

Are you certain that it is a Power of Attorney you are talking about here? Might it be a petition for guardianship of the estate? That is the only sense I can make of:

I then asked the attorney what do you sudjust we do?He replied lets go back to my office and talk more together.After that,he agreed to change the will and both POA's.He stated,since he feels our aunt is not competent at this time he will agree to asign the sister POA of funds.

I think OG may be going a bit far with disbarment. But an attorney who believes a client is not legally competent and then proceeds to draw up a will revision and POA documents for the client's signature is risking some deep doo-doo.

And.. Attorneys "assign" nothing. The principal (in this case, your aunt) grants power to an agent under a POA. Or, in the case of guardianship, the court appoints a guardian.

As thinking about it now I wonder what gives the attorney the right to state our aunt is not competent?He isn't a doctor.
I thought a doctor has to find someone not competent?

The attorney does not require a medical diagnosis of incompetency. If the attorney cannot satisfy himself that the client (or prospective client) is legally competent, then the attorney should decline to participate in the execution of testamentary or POA documents.

I want to call the police or someone about this but,what good would it really do.If I don't have hard proof of what she is doing I have no leg to stand on.

As many responders have suggested, if you think that your [whatever she is] is abusing your aunt, contact Indiana Adult Protective Services. This is what they are there for.

http://www.in.gov/fssa/da/3479.htm

 

[lockbox]

Are you certain that it is a Power of Attorney you are talking about here? Might it be a petition for guardianship of the estate? That is the only sense I can make of:



I think OG may be going a bit far with disbarment. But an attorney who believes a client is not legally competent and then proceeds to draw up a will revision and POA documents for the client's signature is risking some deep doo-doo.

And.. Attorneys "assign" nothing. The principal (in this case, your aunt) grants power to an agent under a POA. Or, in the case of guardianship, the court appoints a guardian.



The attorney does not require a medical diagnosis of incompetency. If the attorney cannot satisfy himself that the client (or prospective client) is legally competent, then the attorney should decline to participate in the execution of testamentary or POA documents.


As many responders have suggested, if you think that your [whatever she is] is abusing your aunt, contact Indiana Adult Protective Services. This is what they are there for.

http://www.in.gov/fssa/da/3479.htm

Thank you anteater,
I tried to explain what is going on using this forum without placing real names out into the public.The reason for this is just in case the problem person I'm dealing with doesn't find this story online and start reading.Example ,if she reads all this stuff she can simple hide what she is doing to the aunt.As any proof I have will be revealed if she would ever go online and find this story.By not stating the real names covers my duckies for reason if or when I decide to report this story.Let's speak the truth for a momnet here,Who would really state their real names using forums "No body would do that".Understanding,that many people on this thread are reading what they want to read.Some on this thread are twisting things towards me as thinking I'm the bad one.That was caused by opinions instead of answering the questions needed.As anteater has answered the questions and I thank you.I understand how this can get twisted for you all to not undertand and to start pointing fingers .Regardless,I didn't ask for opinions I asked for advice.That is what this forum is about correct "advice"?

With that said,
Other then the names stated everything I have stated is correct.You all say no attorney would do this for risk of disbarment.You all must be in denial because,I must say the attorney 100% in fact did.All we are waiting for is the paper work to come into the mail to be signed by me and the other person involved with the aunt.What it now sounds like your all saying to me is I should "what" start going after the attorney?Report the attorney for doing this?Ya right!,I'm no attorney.Attorney's stick together as back up one another.Finding a attorney to go after another attorney is a lost cause.Good luck in that.In that case you hope your new attorney is smarter then the one your fighting.That's a mega war there.

The so called sister in this story has a man if ever married we don't know.But,this man is living with my sister and my aunt in my aunt's house as we speak.
Nether the sister or the man has a job."Unemployed".We all know that when people are living together as all unemployed.They are with each other 24/7.They are driving each other nuts.The sister has stated to me the other day she don't know how much more she can take with the aunt.So,here we have 2 unemployed people living with a elderly lady.They both have been living there for over 4 months now and neither has attempted to get a job.Legal wise as of now the aunt is legally competent until the papers are signed isn't that correct?The sister knows this.Is why she is selling what ever she can before the papers take effect.She is coaching the aunt to sell.The aunt has no idea what is going on.The aunt thinks the sister is there to help her and the aunt loves her too.I found that 3 days prior of the sister calling me about the will I found the house for sale online and in the local news paper with the sisters phone number.Keep in mind they the sister and man removed the aunt's house phone from the wall from to many 911 calls in the past.People on this forum all say to contact police about this.Well,if a cop goes to the house all the sister has to do is replace the house phone on the wall.Then,that problem is solved.
So,my idea is to use the hiden house phone as my ducky reason to fight this."Proof".When a officer goes over there he will see the phone is gone.
That's my one ducky I need to use this ducky with other duckies.If you would simple call the police to do a wellness check.That check may come out ok.But,if you call the police stating they are hiding the house phone and for them to do a wellness check at the same time then the ducky will be one proof i have.The sister and her man drink alot as drunks.When the sister gets drunk she calls other family members to talk.My ducky is this,When I get a call from a different family memeber saying she called them drunk.That's the time to call the cops for a wellness check.Then all my duckies will be in a row.I know she is a drunk.And she may do drugs as well.With that said,They will make a mistake.Before anyone decides to point fingers in my direction better read again.I'm not the one living in the house with all accsess to auntie.You all say,report this now!..I want to and that's the truth.But,if and when they decide to place the phone back on the wall.When that happens I have not a leg to stand on.The only ducky I have is them removing the phone.I want to use that ducky the right way for other duckies to work.May not be a good idea to act so soon on this everything may go south.There is other family members that refuse to step up to this plate to help auntie.Sometimes I feel why should I if they aren't.Got to be a reason why they aren't stepping up to this plate.My only quess is,all the other family members took the aunt on a money ride and she may well be broke.And letting the sister "Trash"take out the trash.If I call the police about this and they don't find anything.The sister will remove me from any paper work.If that happens no one else can do a thing to stop my sister.Sounds harsh by saying this I agree but,if everyone else in the family is not doing a thing to help auntie.Got to be a reason for it.And I don't know the reasons.If everyone else is doing nothing to stop my sister from spending our aunts money.Then that tells me that someone else is getting money too.If no one else cares?Why should I get into this problem?I'm on the will.I can just set back and wait.Who knows the auntie may out live us all.Sounds harsh I agree I may not be thinking straight right now.In a way I feel I need to get out of this .As just give up.I don't have the money to pay a attorney to fight this.I call auntie from time to time she says she is ok.Well,if so,let the sister drain her dry I tried my best to stop it.I can only do what brain smarts I can do.I don't have the brain smarts or the money to fight this.

 

[lockbox]

Thank you anteater,
I tried to explain what is going on using this forum without placing real names out into the public.The reason for this is just in case the problem person I'm dealing with doesn't find this story online and start reading.Example ,if she reads all this stuff she can simple hide what she is doing to the aunt.As any proof I have will be revealed if she would ever go online and find this story.By not stating the real names covers my duckies for reason if or when I decide to report this story.Let's speak the truth for a momnet here,Who would really state their real names using forums "No body would do that".Understanding,that many people on this thread are reading what they want to read.Some on this thread are twisting things towards me as thinking I'm the bad one.That was caused by opinions instead of answering the questions needed.As anteater has answered the questions and I thank you.I understand how this can get twisted for you all to not undertand and to start pointing fingers .Regardless,I didn't ask for opinions I asked for advice.That is what this forum is about correct "advice"?

With that said,
Other then the names stated everything I have stated is correct.You all say no attorney would do this for risk of disbarment.You all must be in denial because,I must say the attorney 100% in fact did.All we are waiting for is the paper work to come into the mail to be signed by me and the other person involved with the aunt.What it now sounds like your all saying to me is I should "what" start going after the attorney?Report the attorney for doing this?Ya right!,I'm no attorney.Attorney's stick together as back up one another.Finding a attorney to go after another attorney is a lost cause.Good luck in that.In that case you hope your new attorney is smarter then the one your fighting.That's a mega war there.

The so called sister in this story has a man if ever married we don't know.But,this man is living with my sister and my aunt in my aunt's house as we speak.
Nether the sister or the man has a job."Unemployed".We all know that when people are living together as all unemployed.They are with each other 24/7.They are driving each other nuts.The sister has stated to me the other day she don't know how much more she can take with the aunt.So,here we have 2 unemployed people living with a elderly lady.They both have been living there for over 4 months now and neither has attempted to get a job.Legal wise as of now the aunt is legally competent until the papers are signed isn't that correct?The sister knows this.Is why she is selling what ever she can before the papers take effect.She is coaching the aunt to sell.The aunt has no idea what is going on.The aunt thinks the sister is there to help her and the aunt loves her too.I found that 3 days prior of the sister calling me about the will I found the house for sale online and in the local news paper with the sisters phone number.Keep in mind they the sister and man removed the aunt's house phone from the wall from to many 911 calls in the past.People on this forum all say to contact police about this.Well,if a cop goes to the house all the sister has to do is replace the house phone on the wall.Then,that problem is solved.
So,my idea is to use the hiden house phone as my ducky reason to fight this."Proof".When a officer goes over there he will see the phone is gone.
That's my one ducky I need to use this ducky with other duckies.If you would simple call the police to do a wellness check.That check may come out ok.But,if you call the police stating they are hiding the house phone and for them to do a wellness check at the same time then the ducky will be one proof i have.The sister and her man drink alot as drunks.When the sister gets drunk she calls other family members to talk.My ducky is this,When I get a call from a different family memeber saying she called them drunk.That's the time to call the cops for a wellness check.Then all my duckies will be in a row.I know she is a drunk.And she may do drugs as well.With that said,They will make a mistake.Before anyone decides to point fingers in my direction better read again.I'm not the one living in the house with all accsess to auntie.You all say,report this now!..I want to and that's the truth.But,if and when they decide to place the phone back on the wall.When that happens I have not a leg to stand on.The only ducky I have is them removing the phone.I want to use that ducky the right way for other duckies to work.May not be a good idea to act so soon on this everything may go south.There is other family members that refuse to step up to this plate to help auntie.Sometimes I feel why should I if they aren't.Got to be a reason why they aren't stepping up to this plate.My only quess is,all the other family members took the aunt on a money ride and she may well be broke.And letting the sister "Trash"take out the trash.If I call the police about this and they don't find anything.The sister will remove me from any paper work.If that happens no one else can do a thing to stop my sister.Sounds harsh by saying this I agree but,if everyone else in the family is not doing a thing to help auntie.Got to be a reason for it.And I don't know the reasons.If everyone else is doing nothing to stop my sister from spending our aunts money.Then that tells me that someone else is getting money too.If no one else cares?Why should I get into this problem?I'm on the will.I can just set back and wait.Who knows the auntie may out live us all.Sounds harsh I agree I may not be thinking straight right now.In a way I feel I need to get out of this .As just give up.I don't have the money to pay a attorney to fight this.I call auntie from time to time she says she is ok.Well,if so,let the sister drain her dry I tried my best to stop it.I can only do what brain smarts I can do.I don't have the brain smarts or the money to fight this.

Reply to anteater about,(Are you certain that it is a Power of Attorney you are talking about here? Might it be a petition for guardianship of the estate? That is the only sense I can make of)
I never was in a will in my life or a POA I have not a clue about this stuff.Attorneys talk code.As they have there own names of things I don't understand.
All I know is the words will and POA was talked about by the attorney.My understanging is,the sister and I will be POAs.We are both in the will.The attorney said ,it best not to make this a trust.He said,it's beter to make this something else.This way it's easier for everyone.So,I do know it's not concidered a trust.It was a small word he called it I don't remember.He said it's something new people are doing now days instead of trusts.More like at the end of our aunt's jurney we both both just devide things is my guess.All the other past wills that was made was trusts.This will not be a trust is what i was told by the attorney.Something new people are doing.But,regardless My concern really isn't about the will.Let's face it it would be nice have money sure who wouldn't say no to money?My worries is if the sister takes auntie for a money ride and runs her broke.My name is POA as well.I don't want to be accussed of her actions down the road.Is why I want to with draw my POA so I'm out of this.Let me seat back and watch.If there is any money for me at the end good for me.If not,so what.

 

[lockbox]

Or that auntie's property will be sold to pay for her future medical care. This is all about greed. And since OP is greedy, she wants her sister out of the way. Even though she is just as bad as her sister (step-sister).

That's your opinion,You say the Op is greedy?Sounds like you need to read again or three times?
This has to do with the so called sister that was unemployed for many yrs and todate still unemployed living with the aunt with all accsess in the house.We haven't seen hied or hair of this so called sister in over 10 yrs until one she walks into the aunts house.3 days later she calls me stating she found the will.Who's greedy you say now?3 days later after she moves in to the aunt's house she finds the will?Why was she looking for the will in the first place I ask you?Greed that's why!!!
Let's get something straight,
She is the one that was searching without the aunt knowing and found the will.She is the one that called me.I didn't call her.The day of that phone call she said,I found the will of are aunt's.The past Poa's and the people that was originally on the will past away.The sister tells me if auntie would die today?Everything will go to the ward of the state because,the people that was POa and on the will was dead.If this was your relative would you let all the relative's funds and items go to the ward of the state?The aunt had no idea that if she died today all will go to the state.The sister said to me I rather see one of us get it rather then the state.If you was involved,you would have your thinking cap on as well.
Another thing,
If the sister's plans was to live in the house and care for the aunt until it was time to go into a nurcing home as she agreed to do?
Why attempt to sell the house now?Their unemployed and living in it caring for the aunt so they say.Why attempt to sell the house?Not for future medical care as you think.Auntie has the money to cover that idea thought.The reason for the sister to attempt to sell the house now is because,the sister want's to put auntie in a nurcing home very soon is why.The proof is here.She found the will surprize.Why was she looking for the will in the first place,She had the will changed and is becoming POA of funds.The house is for sale online as we speak while they are unemployed living in it.And they both are Living off of aunties checks.Both of them have accsess to aunties house as they live with her.And your pointing fingers towards me for greed.Wrong you are.The only reason I demanded to be POA with my sister on this is because,I thought if the sister attempts to rip auntie off I would be able to see it.But,now I found I was wrong on that idea.I'm not living in the house and have no idea where any paper work is in the house to know.Sister has all accsess.You say greed towards me?I'm not unemployed living with auntie spending her money she is!...Greed?If greed is what makes me sick watching my sister run the aunt broke.If the shoe fits?It makes me sick seeing the sister rip auntie off blind.All I can do is seat back and do nothing.So,you think what you want ohiogal.Your pointing in the wrong direction.

 

[lockbox]

UPDATE:
I took all of your advice and called adult social services today.They told me there is nothing anyone can do about the sister hiding the house phone from the aunt.
Since,at this time the aunt wants the sister there.The aunt is in her right mind.There's nothing anyone can do about it.
Until,the aunt is told by the judge not in her right mind nothing can be done to stop the sister from spending aunt's money.SURPRIZED I AM!
This means that anyone can talk a old person into transfer,selling there items,funds and get away with it until that person is told by a judge not in their right mind.
So,as we speak,the sister is coaching the aunt to transfer money into sister's accounts,selling the house and then some.After all is done then the sister will take aunt to doctor,judge for gardainship and nurcing home will be in the making.While the sister has everything.Nice thinking plan for the sister I must say.Won't be nothing left in the will to devide at the end sister will have it all and legal.
So,now I see how it is done,
If you plan to rip off a older relative?Do it before the relative is told by a doctor/judge not in their right mind.After you drain all funds.Then take her to the doctor for guardenship following a nurcing home.All this is 100% legal.Any old person can be talked into transfering funds,selling their home to you for a buck.As long as they are in their right mind is the law.Until the aunt is told by a judge not in her right mind.The sister can coach aunt to give and sell her everything.
So,I see the law and it stinks!
Before anyone goes out of their mind sell,transfer everything then put them away.

 

[Zigner]

Alrighty then.