Banking practice for larger withdrawls

[single317dad]

Yes, I know skirting the amounts is a crime. There was a man charged with that locally about two years ago.

The hassle at the bank had nothing to do with limits and reports. It had everything to do with them giving me a hard time taking cash out of the bank. I've not had that problem before or since, and I no longer deal with Chase (though not due to these problems, this was a temporary arrangement; I don't live or work near a Chase branch anymore and their fees were the highest of any bank I've ever used).

 

[TigerD]

Yes, the bank must report certain activities.

Correct until this point

If your dad is doing nothing illegal, then he has nothing to worry about, even if he withdraws all of his money.

He most certainly has to worry when he is being flagged for a federal investigation. An unintentional misstatement to investigators carries big penalties. And then we run into civil asset forfeiture laws. They (the feds) could seize all his money and leave the poor guy penniless. He would then have to hire an attorney, spend a lot of money and time to prove the money is clean and maybe get it back in several months or years.

DC

 

[mtpockets]

Reason for Suspicious Activity Reports (SARS)

SARS are used to catch drug dealers and terrorists. Your father is probably entitled to a free checking account if he is old enough to be retired and/or has retirements accounts or savings over a a threshold of a few thousand dollars. He should avail himself of this service so that he will have a trail of where the money went in case he has a dispute with a vendor or is ever audited.

 

[Subjection]

He most certainly has to worry when he is being flagged for a federal investigation. An unintentional misstatement to investigators carries big penalties. And then we run into civil asset forfeiture laws. They (the feds) could seize all his money and leave the poor guy penniless. He would then have to hire an attorney, spend a lot of money and time to prove the money is clean and maybe get it back in several months or years.

DC

Yes, this is exactly what we've discovered since I wrote the OP. I've done some research online and found the SAR rules and forms along with other documents and it makes me and my dad think it's more serious than we first thought. First, I find that if someone withdawls $10,000 or more, it gets reported. If they stay under $10,000, it could get reported anyway and possibly even be seen as a crime until we prove otherwise.

Even doing banking business that is out of the ordinary for the customer in question can be used as a basis for filing an SAR. If a person works all their life and regularly made deposits each paycheck, and now is retired and is making withdrawls, that can be seen as unusual.

So the idea that Zigner puts out there that there's nothing to worry about if we've done nothing wrong is completely false. If we are even suspected (based on their own rules and suspicious feelings at the moment) and are accused of something illegal or even suspicious, we have plenty to worry about.

 

[justalayman]

you do need to realize that the filing of the two different types of reports discussed does not mean anything in itself. It is simply information regarding the transactions the banks are required to file. it is intended to bring attention to the transactions but unless those reviewing the transactions believe there is something criminal going on, it is likely nothing will ever come of this.

you should realize though that structuring, or taking specific action intended to avoid the filing of the one form (dammit, I forgot it's designation), for transactions over $10k is a crime in itself. In other words, you can be charged and convicted of a crime if your transactions are 100% legit and your only indiscretion was to intentionally structure the transactions to avoid the filing of the report required when the transactions exceeded the threshold.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5324

so, simply put; do not intentionally reduce the amount of the transaction simply to avoid the requirement to report it as that is a crime.

 

[LdiJ]

actually, there is no true limit. There is the $10k trigger but there is also a suspicious activity statement as well. I do not think the suspicious activity is mandatory like the hard limit activity statement is.

it doesn't make it a pain. It doesn't change much of anything, for the person withdrawing the money. The bank has to file the paperwork, not the account holder. The account holder doesn't even know it is being filed.

You are still misunderstanding the requirement. Regardless of anything else, if you breach the dollar limit or take what the bank determines to be suspicious activity, the bank files these reports.

is that not for tax purposes? If so, it has nothing to do with what I am speaking of.


and if it exceeded the threshold, they filled out the report and filed it as they are required to...after you left.

Re the bolded: I can confirm that its for tax purposes. It a way to make it more difficult for smaller businesses to fudge on their income.

 

[Subjection]

Re the bolded: I can confirm that its for tax purposes. It a way to make it more difficult for smaller businesses to fudge on their income.

I've heard it is also for going after CASH businesses as well, such as taxi companies, who get most of their income in cash. I've even heard of taxi owners depositing their receipts of the day in amounts under $10,000 to avoid getting reported, and then getting arrested for it.

I can see the govt. going after people who deposit their earnings that way to hide how much they make in order to avoid paying taxes, but going after people who withdraw money to make purchases in a way to avoid having the govt. snooping in on their purchasing habits--well, that's going too far. It's bad enough we're being monitored when we earn and deposit money, but we should have a little privacy when it comes to spending it. The whole NSA scandal only underscores the fact that we have less privacy than ever.