Vintage Internet Based Boat Club - Any Liability for Group Gatherings?

[dorelse]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IA

(I wasn't sure where to put this question, so I apologize if I got it wrong)

I own & run a website bringing together owners of a vintage boat manufacturer. We (there are 4 website administrators) occasionally hold 'meets' during the summer where we'll get together for river runs, lake outings, and organize a large annual gathering once per year in MN.

The club collects no dues, we provide nothing but a time and a place to meet.

For the large annual gathering, the marina & campground ask that the administrators handle registration & camping fees. So we collect their fees for them, along with a small fee tacked on to pay for the website fees, and for a local restaurant to supply the fried chicken. The rest of the food is potluck.

We aren't making any money, we are just a bunch of guys who love our old boats and meet up to share our passion for them.

As you might expect, some guys like their beer...we do not supply any alcohol. We anywhere from 50-75 boats in attendance (100-150 people), with guys coming from all corners of the US & Europe.

The club has grown quite popular in the 7 years its been around, and I took over the website 2 years ago, but I am not the club director...we really don't have one...just a forum for like minded guys to hang out, and occasionally hit the lakes together.

The question lately has come up if owning the website creates a potential liability for me? Any thoughts would be appreciated!

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IA

(I wasn't sure where to put this question, so I apologize if I got it wrong)

I own & run a website bringing together owners of a vintage boat manufacturer. We (there are 4 website administrators) occasionally hold 'meets' during the summer where we'll get together for river runs, lake outings, and organize a large annual gathering once per year in MN.

The club collects no dues, we provide nothing but a time and a place to meet.

For the large annual gathering, the marina & campground ask that the administrators handle registration & camping fees. So we collect their fees for them, along with a small fee tacked on to pay for the website fees, and for a local restaurant to supply the fried chicken. The rest of the food is potluck.

We aren't making any money, we are just a bunch of guys who love our old boats and meet up to share our passion for them.

As you might expect, some guys like their beer...we do not supply any alcohol. We anywhere from 50-75 boats in attendance (100-150 people), with guys coming from all corners of the US & Europe.

The club has grown quite popular in the 7 years its been around, and I took over the website 2 years ago, but I am not the club director...we really don't have one...just a forum for like minded guys to hang out, and occasionally hit the lakes together.

The question lately has come up if owning the website creates a potential liability for me? Any thoughts would be appreciated!

What sort of liability do you think might be created by your website? What is your area of concern?

As a note, many websites have liability insurance to cover the costs of any lawsuits that might arise.

 

[dorelse]

I'm concerned that, for example, someone driving their boat (drunk or not) damages someone else's boat, or god forbid, hurts someone. Believing that since the meet was organized on the website, by volunteers, that someone would try to make the website owner (me) is responsible.

We've had some discussion about whether potluck is a good idea or not, given that we're all camping in tents. (Food poisoning)

I think its just an overall concern of that we're somewhat an organized group, if one of the attendee's does something, would I as a website owner, or any of our administrators be at risk?

We don't assign any membership ID's, you don't even have to own a boat (or our brand of boat) to be in the club...like the boats, join our forum...you're "in the club".

We always have the local Sheriff's office come and talk to the group, we make them aware of when we'll be out, our agenda, etc. We try to be good visitors.

We have contacted several insurance companies asking for insurance quotes, and they've all said the same thing...that there's nothing that we can be insured for as we're not a true club by their definitions.

 

[Mass_Shyster]

Sure, you can be sued.

Bob Kraft, the owner of the New England Patriots, was sued by the families of some underage girls who were killed while driving drunk. The went to the stadium to party in the parking lot during a music festival, but they didn't have tickets to the event.

 

[dorelse]

Slight, but important differences in that case though.

Once the drunk, non-ticket holding folks got out of hand, with open fights, vomiting and bad behavior's, security came through and ordered them off the property. So...essentially, they said "hey drunk people...get in your cars and get out of here."

From my readings of that court case, their argument really hinged on a) knowing that tailgating by non-ticket holding folks would occur and b) doing nothing to stop underage drinking from occurring at the tailgating, then c) ordering known drunk people off the property when they'd done nothing to prevent them from entering earlier in the day.

So I'm not sure that applies here.

 

[quincy]

I'm concerned that, for example, someone driving their boat (drunk or not) damages someone else's boat, or god forbid, hurts someone. Believing that since the meet was organized on the website, by volunteers, that someone would try to make the website owner (me) is responsible.

We've had some discussion about whether potluck is a good idea or not, given that we're all camping in tents. (Food poisoning)

I think its just an overall concern of that we're somewhat an organized group, if one of the attendee's does something, would I as a website owner, or any of our administrators be at risk?

We don't assign any membership ID's, you don't even have to own a boat (or our brand of boat) to be in the club...like the boats, join our forum...you're "in the club".

We always have the local Sheriff's office come and talk to the group, we make them aware of when we'll be out, our agenda, etc. We try to be good visitors.

We have contacted several insurance companies asking for insurance quotes, and they've all said the same thing...that there's nothing that we can be insured for as we're not a true club by their definitions.

I agree with Stevef - there is nothing really that can be done to prevent someone from suing you, so what you need to do is limit to the extent possible the chances of a suit being filed against you or, if one is filed, the chances of the suit being successful for the plaintiff.

One way to minimize the chances of a lawsuit is through written and signed agreements (a contract) between you (the website) and each of the participants. The agreements can include an indemnity clause (to cover loss, liability, expense), a release from liability. The agreement can include a requirement that all parties purchase or have their own personal insurance to cover any accidents or injuries that may occur.

The fact that you are looking at the risks involved is good. It is smart to think ahead and plan for the "what ifs." It might also be smart for you to discuss your concerns with an attorney in your area, who can help you sort out the reasonable what-ifs and draft an agreement that will cover them.

Again, nothing can protect you entirely from a lawsuit. You can only hope to reduce the risk.

 

[dorelse]

Right, I think we've grown enough that we need to start taking precautions and being smarter about how we go about things.

I can easily spread the cost of event insurance (and get a waiver on the event registration) on to each boat in attendance.

I will consult with a local lawyer. I took over the website about 18 mos. ago, and have always had a lingering suspicion we needed to do more.

Thanks guys!

 

[quincy]

Right, I think we've grown enough that we need to start taking precautions and being smarter about how we go about things.

I can easily spread the cost of event insurance (and get a waiver on the event registration) on to each boat in attendance.

I will consult with a local lawyer. I took over the website about 18 mos. ago, and have always had a lingering suspicion we needed to do more.

Thanks guys!

You're welcome. Good luck.

As an aside, we have a "boat show" in Detroit every year which always includes vintage boats. With their beautiful woods and brass features, they always attract my attention first. I am not so big on fiberglass.

 

[dorelse]

I didn't mention the club did I...

We run a Classic Glastron club. Many of their boats were featured in James Bond movies of the 70's, on Gilligan's Island (NOT the S. S. Minnow...the Glastron made it to the island and back to Hawaii), and several other movies.

Most of us love the 70's metalflake and performance of the boats.

I love the woodie's, but a bit out of my reach price-wise!

 

[quincy]

I didn't mention the club did I...

We run a Classic Glastron club. Many of their boats were featured in James Bond movies of the 70's, on Gilligan's Island (NOT the S. S. Minnow...the Glastron made it to the island and back to Hawaii), and several other movies.

Most of us love the 70's metalflake and performance of the boats.

I love the woodie's, but a bit out of my reach price-wise!

Ah. Your boats are nice, too.

Good luck with your club and enjoy your Minnesota gathering. Minnesota has some beautiful areas for boating but you might want to consider Michigan for your boat club outing next year - our lakes are beyond compare.




(Oh. And I forgot to mention - in my semi-disguised promotion for the Detroit Boat Show - the dates for this year's show - February 15-23. Information is available through the Cobo Center website - click on events).

 

[Zigner]

Ah. Your boats are nice, too.

Good luck with your club and enjoy your Minnesota gathering. Minnesota has some beautiful areas for boating but you might want to consider Michigan for your boat club outing next year - our lakes are beyond compare.




(Oh. And I forgot to mention - in my semi-disguised promotion for the Detroit Boat Show - the dates for this year's show - February 15-23. Information is available through the Cobo Center website - click on events).

Phew, for a second, I thought you were going to throw in a plug!

 

[FlyingRon]

Which marque are we talking about. I attend a few vintage boat shows and have been members of the ACBS for a long time. I have hull #8 from Grand Craft (24' triple ****pit runabout). I believe our local shows get insurance coverage for liability from the national organization. You may wish to inquire about affiliating with them to see if you can get in on their insurance.