Does she need to file FBAR even though she has lived less than 90 days in USA?

[vikasintl]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? WA state.

My mother came to USA on December 07 2013 with I-551 stamp on her passport with one year validity.
But she is living tomorrow on March 5th 2014 to go back to India.
She has bank accounts with more than $10000 aggregate in her name back in India.

Now am confused if she needs to file FBAR because technically she was resident (since she had I-551 stamp on her passport) on dec. 07 2013
so in year 2013 she was resident for only 24 days.

I called FBAR and they said if she has not lived more than 180 days in USA she is not considered US person and therefore she is not required to submit FBAR ...but my information says one can become US person in two ways...either green card test or substantial presence test...

so I would to confirm, what is true...because I dont want to take chances ...not file than pay penalty.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? WA state.

My mother came to USA on December 07 2013 with I-551 stamp on her passport with one year validity.
But she is living tomorrow on March 5th 2014 to go back to India.
She has bank accounts with more than $10000 aggregate in her name back in India.

Now am confused if she needs to file FBAR because technically she was resident (since she had I-551 stamp on her passport) on dec. 07 2013
so in year 2013 she was resident for only 24 days.

I called FBAR and they said if she has not lived more than 180 days in USA she is not considered US person and therefore she is not required to submit FBAR ...but my information says one can become US person in two ways...either green card test or substantial presence test...

so I would to confirm, what is true...because I dont want to take chances ...not file than pay penalty.

Will your mother be returning to the US to live?

 

[tranquility]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? WA state.

My mother came to USA on December 07 2013 with I-551 stamp on her passport with one year validity.
But she is living tomorrow on March 5th 2014 to go back to India.
She has bank accounts with more than $10000 aggregate in her name back in India.

Now am confused if she needs to file FBAR because technically she was resident (since she had I-551 stamp on her passport) on dec. 07 2013
so in year 2013 she was resident for only 24 days.

I called FBAR and they said if she has not lived more than 180 days in USA she is not considered US person and therefore she is not required to submit FBAR ...but my information says one can become US person in two ways...either green card test or substantial presence test...

so I would to confirm, what is true...because I dont want to take chances ...not file than pay penalty.

I hate what I'm about to say because I don't like doing things out of fear. But, the penalties are so severe, unless a client has a real desire to not file for some reason, we encourage them to file. The government is quite serious on the matter and one does not want to be on the other side of the table arguing about if the law applies to you or not. The IRS has done a wonderful job of scaring the heck out of me on this issue.

 

[vikasintl]

not sure if she will come back to live

Will your mother be returning to the US to live?

We are not sure if she will come back to live.. whenver she will come she will not stay for more than 3 months or so..

she will not stay here for ever...

 

[vikasintl]

I hate what I'm about to say because I don't like doing things out of fear. But, the penalties are so severe, unless a client has a real desire to not file for some reason, we encourage them to file. The government is quite serious on the matter and one does not want to be on the other side of the table arguing about if the law applies to you or not. The IRS has done a wonderful job of scaring the heck out of me on this issue.

So you are suggesting ..its better to be safe than sorry and report foreign account correct?

 

[LdiJ]

I hate what I'm about to say because I don't like doing things out of fear. But, the penalties are so severe, unless a client has a real desire to not file for some reason, we encourage them to file. The government is quite serious on the matter and one does not want to be on the other side of the table arguing about if the law applies to you or not. The IRS has done a wonderful job of scaring the heck out of me on this issue.

I don't disagree with you...because the IRS has done a wonderful job of scaring the heck out of me on this issue as well. However, if she doesn't have a social security number and a green card I am not sure that the IRS has any authority over her.

 

[tranquility]

So you are suggesting ..its better to be safe than sorry and report foreign account correct?

It only costs a little time.

 

[davew128]

My policy has been to file it even when under the filing threshold. That said, if the woman is not a US person, I wouldn't file. She doesn't have a green card and doesn't meet the substantial presence test.

 

[Proserpina]

My policy has been to file it even when under the filing threshold. That said, if the woman is not a US person, I wouldn't file. She doesn't have a green card and doesn't meet the substantial presence test.

The I-551 IS the green card...

 

[LdiJ]

The I-551 IS the green card...

I looked it up and what I saw indicated that the I-551 stamp made her eligible for a green card but was not the actual green card. Did I misunderstand what I read?

If she has an unconditional green card then I agree, she needs to file the Fbar and she needs to file a US tax return reporting her world-wide income and taking whatever exclusions or credits she is entitled to receive. However, since she isn't actually living in the US, I am really confused about her true status.

 

[Proserpina]

I looked it up and what I saw indicated that the I-551 stamp made her eligible for a green card but was not the actual green card. Did I misunderstand what I read?

Yes and no...

If she has an unconditional green card then I agree, she needs to file the Fbar and she needs to file a US tax return reporting her world-wide income and taking whatever exclusions or credits she is entitled to receive. However, since she isn't actually living in the US, I am really confused about her true status.

The I-551 stamp is what you get to "prove" that you're an LPR until you actually get the physical card. The stamp can expire much faster though - while this doesn't mean your status has expired, it can be a problem.

So... to oversimplify it, the passport stamp is temporary proof that you're an LPR. It's not a temporary or conditional GC.

(I know we're full of anecdotes, but another true story: I had to rely upon my passport stamp for almost a year before I actually got the physical card)

And apparently this is much clearer than I can be: http://www.uscis.gov/i-9-central/acceptable-documents/list-documents

 

[vikasintl]

I-551 is temporary evidence of permanent residency (green card) for one year or evidence of lawful admission.

and residency starting date determined by first day of lawful presence in USA.

This tells me that she was residence starting dec. 07 2013 and she is leaving tomorrow on march 5th 2014.

 

[Proserpina]

I-551 is temporary evidence of permanent residency (green card) for one year or evidence of lawful admission.

and residency starting date determined by first day of lawful presence in USA.

This tells me that she was residence starting dec. 07 2013 and she is leaving tomorrow on march 5th 2014.

Admittedly I'm not entirely sure why she bothered with the I-551 - it is NOT meant to enable coming and going at will while holding residency elsewhere.

If she stays away for long enough, she'll lose status anyway.

 

[vikasintl]

Admittedly I'm not entirely sure why she bothered with the I-551 - it is NOT meant to enable coming and going at will while holding residency elsewhere.

If she stays away for long enough, she'll lose status anyway.

I dont understand your question or response...

she did not bother with I-551 ....that was stamp on her passport and later they sent plastic i-551 which in other words they call green card.

 

[Proserpina]

I dont understand your question or response...

she did not bother with I-551 ....that was stamp on her passport and later they sent plastic i-551 which in other words they call green card.

Sorry, I'll clarify. If she didn't intend to live in the US, why did she bother getting permanent residency?