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How does prenup work at the time of divorce

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neva1

Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

This for one of my uncles, who is in his late 60s and totally computer illiterate. So, please gentle as I don't have all the details right now.

He is in his 2nd marriage of about 15 years long. From the first marriage, he was burned, financially speaking. WIth the suggestion of one of his friends, when he got married to the current wife, they signed a boilerplate prenup, according to what he told me. He said his friend copied the agreement from a law book (self-help type I presume) and they both signed it. He says he has not seen the papers for a while but he thinks he knows where it is.

She owns a house fully paid off, prior to marriage to my uncle. Since they got married, house was a rental. My uncle owns the house they are living in right now (or up until separation 3-4 months ago). They were paying the mortgage together. I think her house and uncle's house was comparable in real estate value, within few thousand dollars. And according to my uncle, a portion of rental income from the house is sitting in several bank accounts. During marriage, she worked part time as a freelance writer. She paid her share of the mortgage from the rental income she received acc. to my uncle. Whatever else she made, was enough to cover her personal expenses and then some. My uncle paid for health insurance for both, did all the house maintenance from his income and was able to save a bit, but not as much as her I suppose. He says they did the general shopping for the house (this I believe refers to food, cleaning, furnishings etc) together, spending, give or take, equally.

Up until this point, I believe she keeps her paid-off house. No arguments there. What happens to the house under my uncle's name (purchased prior to this marriage but the mortgage was and still is being paid) ? Does the value gained on the property gets to be considered as "community property", subject to division ? What happens to the remainder of her rental income and my uncles savings ?

To make the things a little more complicated, my uncle won US$20K from a lucky scratcher from CA lottery in 2013, which is still sitting at a bank under a rainy day fund account. Also few weeks before they decided to go on their separate ways, he went to Vegas with a couple of his buddies and had a lucky streak on a blackjack table. Came back with another $15K in winnings. Lucky guy. What can I say ? Now, the question is, what will happen to this windfall from the "lucky" winnings ?

Thank you on behalf of my uncle.
 


ecmst12

Senior Member
Such a prenup is unlikely to be enforceable at all. Both parties need to be represented and a prenup needs to be custom written to the specific situation and desired outcome.

But he will need to find the paperwork and take it to a local attorney for review to find out for sure.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

This for one of my uncles, who is in his late 60s and totally computer illiterate. So, please gentle as I don't have all the details right now.

He is in his 2nd marriage of about 15 years long. From the first marriage, he was burned, financially speaking. WIth the suggestion of one of his friends, when he got married to the current wife, they signed a boilerplate prenup, according to what he told me. He said his friend copied the agreement from a law book (self-help type I presume) and they both signed it. He says he has not seen the papers for a while but he thinks he knows where it is.
The prenuptial is not valid if each party did not have their own attorney to review the document prior to signing.
She owns a house fully paid off, prior to marriage to my uncle. Since they got married, house was a rental. My uncle owns the house they are living in right now (or up until separation 3-4 months ago). They were paying the mortgage together. I think her house and uncle's house was comparable in real estate value, within few thousand dollars. And according to my uncle, a portion of rental income from the house is sitting in several bank accounts. During marriage, she worked part time as a freelance writer. She paid her share of the mortgage from the rental income she received acc. to my uncle. Whatever else she made, was enough to cover her personal expenses and then some. My uncle paid for health insurance for both, did all the house maintenance from his income and was able to save a bit, but not as much as her I suppose. He says they did the general shopping for the house (this I believe refers to food, cleaning, furnishings etc) together, spending, give or take, equally.

Up until this point, I believe she keeps her paid-off house. No arguments there. What happens to the house under my uncle's name (purchased prior to this marriage but the mortgage was and still is being paid) ? Does the value gained on the property gets to be considered as "community property", subject to division ? What happens to the remainder of her rental income and my uncles savings ?

To make the things a little more complicated, my uncle won US$20K from a lucky scratcher from CA lottery in 2013, which is still sitting at a bank under a rainy day fund account. Also few weeks before they decided to go on their separate ways, he went to Vegas with a couple of his buddies and had a lucky streak on a blackjack table. Came back with another $15K in winnings. Lucky guy. What can I say ? Now, the question is, what will happen to this windfall from the "lucky" winnings ?

Thank you on behalf of my uncle.
Her house (and the rents that are in their own accounts) are her separate property. She may have a claim to a portion of the increase in value in the house they live in, since she was paying towards it. The lottery & gambling winnings are community property. Your uncle needs an attorney.
 

neva1

Member
Thanks for both answers. I'm sorry to omit the fact that, the prenup was signed in the presence of an attorney. Again, I am relaying my uncle's words. Hence, for further details I need to talk to him again. But I remember him saying, there is the attorney's signature on that piece of paper.

And for the need of an attorney, I strongly agree with you. The divorce papers have not been filed yet by either side and they are still in civilized talking terms. No animosity yet. Of course it is likely to change once the division of propert comes into the picture if they decide to go the divorce route, which is highly likely.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Thanks for both answers. I'm sorry to omit the fact that, the prenup was signed in the presence of an attorney.
Again, if each party didn't have the prenup reviewed by their own attorney, then the prenup won't be enforceable.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Upon further review, I am going to back down a little from my earlier statement. It appears that a premarital agreement may be enforceable without each party being represented except for spousal support matters. In any case, a review by an attorney is essential.
 

ecmst12

Senior Member
Even if it is enforceable, what happens in the event of divorce is going to depend on exactly what the agreement says.
 

neva1

Member
Even if it is enforceable, what happens in the event of divorce is going to depend on exactly what the agreement says.
I believe both my uncle and his soon to be ex, were delusional while they signed a piece of paper copied from a book. I am under the impression that there is no such thing as whatever is mine will be mine and yours will be yours after the divorce, including earnings and such, with a simple prenup like theirs. Right ?
 

latigo

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA . . . .
Are these people in the process of divorce, contemplating a divorce or are you just being abstractly inquisitive?

Whatever, none of the issues you've presented can be addressed with any authority unless one is to read the misplaced pre-nuptial agreement.

However, should the document in fact exist, if the wife was not represented by independent counsel in its negotiation and execution, and should she choose to refute it, uncle is going to have a serious problem attempting to enforce it.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
However, should the document in fact exist, if the wife was not represented by independent counsel in its negotiation and execution, and should she choose to refute it, uncle is going to have a serious problem attempting to enforce it.
Per California law, that is not a requirement (unless spousal support is an issue):

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=fam&group=01001-02000&file=1610-1617
 

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