Relinquishing Parental Rights

[mhchameleon423]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas

My spouse and I are looking at relinquishing our parental rights of our 13 year old daughter. There are extreme circumstances that are bringing us to this decision. Our daughter was adopted as a baby and has severe psychological issues. We have spent 2 years trying to get her adiquate help through every possible source. We have gone through private insurance, attorneys, child protective services, therapist and psychiatrist. No one can help us get her the treatment she needs. We can get her in and out of acute care hospitals and 2-3 week stays in residential programs but that is it. Therapeutic schools are far to expensive for us even though we make decent money. The last conversation I had with cps I was told we could relinquish our rights based on the inablilty to keep her and others around her safe but we would be obligated to pay child support with no contact allowed between us and her. This seems wrong - if we have to pay child support shouldn't we be allowed contact? Personally I think contact would be more disruptive for her based on her psychological diagnosis' but I guess a doctor would have to decide that. Any way do we really have to pay child support? I am so confused and furious that "bad" parents get their kids taken away,get all kinds of help for them and their kids and yet a good family can't find anything.

 

[Proserpina]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas

My spouse and I are looking at relinquishing our parental rights of our 13 year old daughter. There are extreme circumstances that are bringing us to this decision. Our daughter was adopted as a baby and has severe psychological issues. We have spent 2 years trying to get her adiquate help through every possible source. We have gone through private insurance, attorneys, child protective services, therapist and psychiatrist. No one can help us get her the treatment she needs. We can get her in and out of acute care hospitals and 2-3 week stays in residential programs but that is it. Therapeutic schools are far to expensive for us even though we make decent money. The last conversation I had with cps I was told we could relinquish our rights based on the inablilty to keep her and others around her safe but we would be obligated to pay child support with no contact allowed between us and her. This seems wrong - if we have to pay child support shouldn't we be allowed contact? Personally I think contact would be more disruptive for her based on her psychological diagnosis' but I guess a doctor would have to decide that. Any way do we really have to pay child support? I am so confused and furious that "bad" parents get their kids taken away,get all kinds of help for them and their kids and yet a good family can't find anything.

You're likely going to receive some pretty harsh answers and perhaps they're deserved. I'll be as unbiased as I can.

This 13 year old is obviously going through some deep emotional and psychological problems, so let's focus on her first. If you are truly sure that there's no hope of a positive outcome with her staying with you, then you can file in Texas to file a TPR. It's not a guarantee, and the court can deny your petition. That's the legal answer.

It IS tragic that you no longer want your daughter and it's going to affect her more than you realize. She was abandoned as a baby, and her parents now want to abandon her too. Have you considered that? Do you really understand the possible consequences of that? In her mind, you've given up and made it clear that she is no longer wanted. Not exactly a healthy way of helping her.

Then there's the money. And this time, I'm not holding back.

You are more concerned about your wallet than anything or anyone else. Do you really think she doesn't see that? She sees it. Trust me. Once again, you've decided that she's not worth helping and you're fine with shoving her off as long as you don't have to pay child support.

But....

This thread could also be the result of a troll with nothing to do on a Saturday night.

I wonder if that's the case?

 

[mhchameleon423]

Not a Troll

Well I fully understand your "anger" towards my question and your feeling that this is about money. I don't want to give full detail on the situation because it is pretty in depth and private. First though I love my daughter more than life itself. I am 150% sure of how this would effect her - it would be devestating and she would always feel that not only her biological parents didn't want her but that we didn't want her. I have spent 15 years working in the therapeutic foster field so I am very much aware of how children are affected by this. To be very brief my daughter is suicidal and homicial and that is just the tip of the iceberg. I have my entire home on lock down at all times, search her on a regular basis, the school has to search her and much more. If I could afford even the cheapest of therapeutic schools she would be there in a heartbeat because that is what everyone recommends. It is strongly recommended she not live with any other children in a normal setting, that she never be unsupervised and again much more. This is not a typical case of "oh I don't feel like being a parent" this is for her safety ultimately and in part yes the rest of my families. I don't give a crud about paying child support what I do want is if I have to pay child support the right to see her and stay in contact with her. In the state of Texas this is becoming a epidemic where parents can't get their children the help they desperately need unless they turn them over to the state which then creates severly damaged children. I have researched this extinsevely so I am confident in what I am tell you. I would go public with our story if I thought it would change laws and health care in Texas but it will not do anything. I'm not asking you to not judge me or anyone else to not judge me because you and many others will even family. I asked for advice here because I can't seem to get unbiased advice anywhere but really it is a subject that no one could be unbiased on. Thank you for your input.

 

[Proserpina]

Well I fully understand your "anger" towards my question and your feeling that this is about money. I don't want to give full detail on the situation because it is pretty in depth and private. First though I love my daughter more than life itself. I am 150% sure of how this would effect her - it would be devestating and she would always feel that not only her biological parents didn't want her but that we didn't want her. I have spent 15 years working in the therapeutic foster field so I am very much aware of how children are affected by this. To be very brief my daughter is suicidal and homicial and that is just the tip of the iceberg. I have my entire home on lock down at all times, search her on a regular basis, the school has to search her and much more. If I could afford even the cheapest of therapeutic schools she would be there in a heartbeat because that is what everyone recommends. It is strongly recommended she not live with any other children in a normal setting, that she never be unsupervised and again much more. This is not a typical case of "oh I don't feel like being a parent" this is for her safety ultimately and in part yes the rest of my families. I don't give a crud about paying child support what I do want is if I have to pay child support the right to see her and stay in contact with her. In the state of Texas this is becoming a epidemic where parents can't get their children the help they desperately need unless they turn them over to the state which then creates severly damaged children. I have researched this extinsevely so I am confident in what I am tell you. I would go public with our story if I thought it would change laws and health care in Texas but it will not do anything. I'm not asking you to not judge me or anyone else to not judge me because you and many others will even family. I asked for advice here because I can't seem to get unbiased advice anywhere but really it is a subject that no one could be unbiased on. Thank you for your input.

But here again, you've just told us that you only want to see her if you're paying child support. How does that work, exactly? If you don't have to pay, you'll be rid of her forever?

There's some info here: http://law.onecle.com/texas/family/51.03.00.html

And here: http://www.myoutofcontrolteen.com/mr-rights.html

Understand that what you're asking is heartbreaking to read. I'd guess that any answers (mine included), are offered solely for the poor kid's benefit.

 

[justalayman]

I don't give a crud about paying child support what I do want is if I have to pay child support the right to see her and stay in contact with her.

so in other words, you do give a crud about paying child support as you believe it reserves your rights to interact with the child.


the thing is; this is your child. You are responsible for the costs of raising your child. The fact you wish to relinquish your parental rights doesn't mean you get to hoist that cost onto the taxpayers.


so, which do you want:

relinquish your parental rights, pay child support, not be allowed to see the child


not pay child support other than what it costs you to raise your child and she remains in your home

those are pretty much the options here.



but to this:

In the state of Texas this is becoming a epidemic where parents can't get their children the help they desperately need unless they turn them over to the state which then creates severly damaged children. I have researched this extinsevely so I am confident in what I am tell you.

did you see what some other poster said?

To be very brief my daughter is suicidal and homicial and that is just the tip of the iceberg. I have my entire home on lock down at all times, search her on a regular basis, the school has to search her and much more. It is strongly recommended she not live with any other children in a normal setting, that she never be unsupervised and again much more.

it sounds like there isn't much Texas could do to make it worse.


Oh hey, just noticed; that was you that posted that.

 

[Ladyback1]

Well I fully understand your "anger" towards my question and your feeling that this is about money. I don't want to give full detail on the situation because it is pretty in depth and private. First though I love my daughter more than life itself. I am 150% sure of how this would effect her - it would be devestating and she would always feel that not only her biological parents didn't want her but that we didn't want her. I have spent 15 years working in the therapeutic foster field so I am very much aware of how children are affected by this. To be very brief my daughter is suicidal and homicial and that is just the tip of the iceberg. I have my entire home on lock down at all times, search her on a regular basis, the school has to search her and much more. If I could afford even the cheapest of therapeutic schools she would be there in a heartbeat because that is what everyone recommends. It is strongly recommended she not live with any other children in a normal setting, that she never be unsupervised and again much more. This is not a typical case of "oh I don't feel like being a parent" this is for her safety ultimately and in part yes the rest of my families. I don't give a crud about paying child support what I do want is if I have to pay child support the right to see her and stay in contact with her. In the state of Texas this is becoming a epidemic where parents can't get their children the help they desperately need unless they turn them over to the state which then creates severly damaged children. I have researched this extinsevely so I am confident in what I am tell you. I would go public with our story if I thought it would change laws and health care in Texas but it will not do anything. I'm not asking you to not judge me or anyone else to not judge me because you and many others will even family. I asked for advice here because I can't seem to get unbiased advice anywhere but really it is a subject that no one could be unbiased on. Thank you for your input.

If you KNOW what it's going to do to her, then how can you sleep at night, if you throw her away?



And, if you truly grasp what is important: It shouldn't matter if you have to pay support, or whether you get to see her or not. The most important thing is that she receives the care and treatment she needs.

 

[I'mTheFather]

If you believe this (and I do):

And, if you truly grasp what is important: It shouldn't matter if you have to pay support, or whether you get to see her or not. The most important thing is that she receives the care and treatment she needs.

Then why was it necessary to say this?

If you KNOW what it's going to do to her, then how can you sleep at night, if you throw her away?

The two don't even make sense together.

 

[Proserpina]

I realize this isn't a popular answer, but I've long since forgotten how to be offended by nonsense posted by other members.

There are times when acknowledging that you can no longer parent the child is the only thing you can do, and it can be the first step in trying to come up with some sort of working plan. It usually takes a lot of soul-searching, and sometimes there is the realization that it's better for the child to be elsewhere.

I do believe that, and strongly.

But this one...well, maybe it was the wording, or the repeated child support issue. I don't know. Maybe I've prejudged the OP. It just left a taste of rotten eggs.

There is help available though, and I'm not convinced that OP has tried everything. So, OP may not actually be aware of other types of assistance. There are some recent changes here, and it's actually not a bad place to start. https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/opin/opinions.php?headingID=42

At 15, it's probably going to be nigh on impossible for the child to be placed with a different family long term but there ARE foster families around.

And as far as damage goes...well, she's damaged enough. She needs to feel safe, and secure. And the parents need to put that first and forget about any money problems.

Gawd now I want to offer a group hug.

 

[I'mTheFather]

I'll join that group hug.

I noted the child support issue in the posts, as well. I interpreted it differently, I suppose. I don't always give the benefit of the doubt to posters, but it seems to me that this one's concern is the fact that there is very little help unless parental rights are terminated. The child support issue is the only thing available to rant against since the OP believes there are no other alternatives. I may be wrong.

Also, the use of "suicidal and homicidal" just brought visions of all the atrocities committed by young people in the past few years.

I understand others' opinions on OP's actions. What I don't understand is accusing OP of throwing the child away while saying that the most important thing is getting her the help she needs, however that's achieved.

 

[Proserpina]

I'll join that group hug.

I noted the child support issue in the posts, as well. I interpreted it differently, I suppose. I don't always give the benefit of the doubt to posters, but it seems to me that this one's concern is the fact that there is very little help unless parental rights are terminated. The child support issue is the only thing available to rant against since the OP believes there are no other alternatives. I may be wrong.

Also, the use of "suicidal and homicidal" just brought visions of all the atrocities committed by young people in the past few years.

I understand others' opinions on OP's actions. What I don't understand is accusing OP of throwing the child away while saying that the most important thing is getting her the help she needs, however that's achieved.

Sometimes even the best parenting can't guarantee a golden child.

I acknowledge that in a way that most people will never understand, and I'm really not wanting to hijack this thread. But yeah - sometimes good parenting just doesn't work. And the frustration is one thing....feeling suicidal or homicidal is a different thing entirely and I strongly feel that this child AND the parents need help desperately.

OP is in a horrible situation. They all are. And to be honest, it's heartbreaking just to read it.

 

[mhchameleon423]

OP - guess that's who I am

I was apparently unclear over my primary concern - that is the safety and well being of my daughter and those around her. We have done everything humanely possible to keep her safe and up until 18 months ago that was working. She was still doing thousands of dollars worth of damage to our home and stealing non-stop from everywhere - and I do mean everywhere. Even when she gave away over a 1,000 worth of jewelery in 5th grade we merely consequenced her but didn't prosecute - she is our daughter we couldn't very well send her to juvie. Not only is our child suicidal and homicial she suffers from Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (keep in mind she was adopted at 11 months old), Reactive Attachment Disorder, Severe ADHD, Severe Depression, Suicidal Ideation, ODD, and a few other things but surely that is enough labels to attach to one young child. I have done my research! I know what is available to help us help her and it is basically nothing. Right now I pay over $2,000 a month for Obamacare insurance as my husband is a independent contractor so we had to get private insurance. We have a $12,500 deductible - her last suicide attempt the ER visit alone after our insurance paid what they would cost us $4,000. We are terrified because the Residential stay was $12,800 -- we are normal people that is not the kind of money we have. We purchased a insurance plan we thought would cover her needs based on what it said - surprise it doesn't cover many things including all the toxicology lab work done at the er.

SO no child support, medical none of that is my top concern. Her safety is - I was in the home with her when she tried to poison herself she was out of my site for less than 3 minutes and then proudly told me what she had done. When I got on the phone with the hospital she pulled a steak knife out of the dishwasher on me (we keep all that stuff locked up and have for over a year now). The reason I brought up child support is it makes me very angry that we have to pay child support and can't even see our child - parents that pay child support have a right to their child. I know the foster care system as I have worked in it for 15 years - I see what parents do to their children and yet again and again they get free medical help, access to treatment centers for their children and even themselves, all kinds of public assistance and help from CPS - with the end goal family reunification. Did I think about this route even - let cps take custody and help us as a family yes - wait there is a catch even to that --- since we are not abusive or neglectful we get to pay for all of her care while she is in cps custody at a rate of appx. $92 day when in a foster home and when in a residential facility whatever their rate is - TX avg seems to be about $400 - $500/day, continue to provide private health insurance, not to mention the 20% of my husbands income in child support. Yep do the math!!! That is a heck of a lot of money and don't forget - we are still paying taxes this whole time just like all of you. We are a average income family with normal expenses - could you afford that kind of money realistically no matter how much your loved your child? We have been struggling through this for years with it getting worse in the past year and a half. This has never been about the cost to care for our daughter until the state brought us to that point and even then I will gladly pay child support but I want the right to see my child, I don't think my rights should have to be terminated if I am paying child support. Shouldn't I have the same benefits a "bad" parent has when I am the one seeking help for my child not the state trying to "save" my child from a horrible situation.

So again this is not about child support. It is one parents severe frustration over not being able to get her daughter the help she desperately needs unless I relinquish my parental rights and then yes still have to pay child support with no rights to see her. Should I support my daughter in EVERY way absolutely and I have done just that for the past 13 years (she will be 14 soon). I have weathered every storm and so far no one is seriously harmed except our house and the loss of replacable items. However, now my concern goes beyond her but to the well being of others. She has taken things like a lawn sign on a metal post to school - they considered it a weapon - in her mind she was taking it as a gift to a teacher --- but.....what if she lost her temper and did use it as a weapon. This is a child that walked into a brick wall and gave herself a bloody nose so she could say another child she was mad at did it and get the child in trouble -- big problem there I am a protective parent I went straight to the school furious they hadn't called me over the bloody nose - it was still gross when she got off the bus and then to the police to file a assault report --- thank goodness the local police calmed me down --- my child did this to herself when she got off the bus --- now lets keep in mind I had the door open within minutes of the bus pulling up to my house - she did this that quick. Hopefully at this point those of you that feel I want to "throw my child away" see that is far, far, far from the case. I have some of the best training out there short of actual medical certification to handle my child's problems and even I can't keep her safe or others safe. What options do I really have. She needs long term care in a facility that can monitor her 24/7 until she is a adult and then she will need a adult living facility because she will never be able to care for herself (yep she has other issues as well). We didn't know this when we adopted her and I can't honestly say I would not adopt her given the chance again if I knew even part of this - I love my daughter and would give my own life for her but I can't help her. Don't you think I feel like the world's worst mother - I'm seriously considering giving my child away. I didn't come here to be berated I came here for help. It looks like this is just another dead end road.

 

[mmmagique]

I have no advice to give. I just wanted to tell you how sorry I am for all you and your family (including of course, your daughter) is going through. God bless you.

 

[stealth2]

It's a sad situation for all involved. We should all remember "there but for the grace of God..."

The only thing I WILL address is child support as coupled w/visitation. The two aren't. Coupled, that is. Paying CS does not grant visitation. It's not an admission fee, as it were. I suspect the parents you "know" through the system get visitation because reunification is the goal. It seems as though that would not be the case in your situation. Not until she is an adult, if then.

But I wish you all the best of luck.

 

[GrandmaOH]

It's a sad situation for all involved. We should all remember "there but for the grace of God..."

The only thing I WILL address is child support as coupled w/visitation. The two aren't. Coupled, that is. Paying CS does not grant visitation. It's not an admission fee, as it were. I suspect the parents you "know" through the system get visitation because reunification is the goal. It seems as though that would not be the case in your situation. Not until she is an adult, if then.

But I wish you all the best of luck.

Stealth, maybe you pinpointed the issue. If reunification is not the goal, why should they be required to pay support?

mhchameleon, what reassurances do you have that CPS would put your child in a residential mental health treatment facility? And if she is placed in that type of facility wouldn't Medicaid pick up the full cost?

 

[Proserpina]

Stealth, maybe you pinpointed the issue. If reunification is not the goal, why should they be required to pay support?

mhchameleon, what reassurances do you have that CPS would put your child in a residential mental health treatment facility? And if she is placed in that type of facility wouldn't Medicaid pick up the full cost?

Because she's still their child and needs to be supported by her parents?

I'm not even going to touch on the Medicaid question since it will open the door to a whole lot of nonsense which, quite honestly, doesn't need to said by us or read by the OP.