Can/Should I change the onset date for my SSDI application?

[kalistal]

I'm located in North Carolina.

I'm pretty sure that I've made a good case for SSDI. I have numerous physical conditions, including chronic abdominal pain, migraines, insomnia and fibromyalgia. Also, I suffer from PTSD, generalized anxiety disorder and depression. This is my 1st filing and I know that most people are denied, but with my paperwork I included letters from my doctor and therapist listing my disabilities and that I couldn't even do 8 hours/month community service due to my ongoing medical and psychological issues. In that letter, my therapist stated that I'm struggling greatly to meet my basic needs like taking care of my kids, sleeping, eating, etc. My therapist also filled out an RFD paper I found online and most of the symptoms were marked and clearly stated that I can't work right now and that the treatment would be ongoing for at least 6 months if not longer. A letter from my former employer cited how they could observe my medical issues and had to send me home frequently and how I was dismissed due to excessive absences because my medical conditions had gotten so bad. Also, a friend wrote a 2 page letter that was notarized specifying how I was before my disabilities escalated and what he has to do for me know since I've had so many problems functioning.


I originally put the onset date as Jan. 2013 since I was already missing a lot of time and I was hospitalized in Feb. of 2013. Am I able to change my onset date to 2012 when the absences started since my case is still pending? If I were to call and do that and DDS disagreed would they deny my case entirely or just adjust the onset date to what they want it to be?

 

[Ladyback1]

I originally put the onset date as Jan. 2013 since I was already missing a lot of time and I was hospitalized in Feb. of 2013. Am I able to change my onset date to 2012 when the absences started since my case is still pending? If I were to call and do that and DDS disagreed would they deny my case entirely or just adjust the onset date to what they want it to be?

Your onset date, regardless of what you indicated, will be determined based on medical records, documentation, wage/earning statements, etc.

Generally speaking, what the applicant feels is the "onset" date, is truly irrelevant. The onset date will be determined by SSA based on what information and documentation they receive.

 

[commentator]

I'm glad you're feeling confident about the approval. Let us know how it comes out.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

No disrespect, I would not count on that fast approval. I appear to have filed with worse symptoms than you and they are fighting it even though I waited until the last minute trying to go back.

 

[Nellibelle]

I'm located in North Carolina.

I'm pretty sure that I've made a good case for SSDI. I have numerous physical conditions, including chronic abdominal pain, migraines, insomnia and fibromyalgia. Also, I suffer from PTSD, generalized anxiety disorder and depression. This is my 1st filing and I know that most people are denied, but with my paperwork I included letters from my doctor and therapist listing my disabilities and that I couldn't even do 8 hours/month community service due to my ongoing medical and psychological issues. In that letter, my therapist stated that I'm struggling greatly to meet my basic needs like taking care of my kids, sleeping, eating, etc. My therapist also filled out an RFD paper I found online and most of the symptoms were marked and clearly stated that I can't work right now and that the treatment would be ongoing for at least 6 months if not longer. A letter from my former employer cited how they could observe my medical issues and had to send me home frequently and how I was dismissed due to excessive absences because my medical conditions had gotten so bad. Also, a friend wrote a 2 page letter that was notarized specifying how I was before my disabilities escalated and what he has to do for me know since I've had so many problems functioning.


I originally put the onset date as Jan. 2013 since I was already missing a lot of time and I was hospitalized in Feb. of 2013. Am I able to change my onset date to 2012 when the absences started since my case is still pending? If I were to call and do that and DDS disagreed would they deny my case entirely or just adjust the onset date to what they want it to be?

It is absolutely for sure, that your 'onset' date would be AFTER you stopped working, if you are accepted for SSDI! I wouldn't be so sure you are going to be accepted with your initial application for benefits. Most initial applications get denied! If you have not done so, you should probably get an Attorney or an Advocate to represent you. That way, your chances of receiving benefits are enhanced!

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

The earliest onset date you could have is after you received your last pay check.

 

[Ladyback1]

It is absolutely for sure, that your 'onset' date would be AFTER you stopped working, if you are accepted for SSDI! I wouldn't be so sure you are going to be accepted with your initial application for benefits. Most initial applications get denied! If you have not done so, you should probably get an Attorney or an Advocate to represent you. That way, your chances of receiving benefits are enhanced!

No, that is incorrect.

The onset date can be before a person quits work, as long as: while the person was working they were not earning substantial gainful earnings. If they were working part-time (due to their reported disability) then it is quite possible that the onset date could be while they were working. Or if a person's disability keeps them from working for more than minimum wage, etc.

Per the attorney I know (who does nothing but SSA law): 6 out of 10 people are denied on initial application, of those, 9 of 10 are denied when they ask for a reconsideration and the best chance for approval is going in front of the ALJ (Administrative Law Judge)

Getting an attorney or advocate for initial application and even the reconsideration phase does not necessarily increase the chance of receiving benefits.

 

[Nellibelle]

No, that is incorrect.

The onset date can be before a person quits work, as long as: while the person was working they were not earning substantial gainful earnings. If they were working part-time (due to their reported disability) then it is quite possible that the onset date could be while they were working. Or if a person's disability keeps them from working for more than minimum wage, etc.

Per the attorney I know (who does nothing but SSA law): 6 out of 10 people are denied on initial application, of those, 9 of 10 are denied when they ask for a reconsideration and the best chance for approval is going in front of the ALJ (Administrative Law Judge)

Getting an attorney or advocate for initial application and even the reconsideration phase does not necessarily increase the chance of receiving benefits.

I never said one's chances for getting benefits accepted were enhanced by getting an Attorney for the initial application! I said that getting an Attorney or advocate would enhance one's chances of getting approved, period! I agree, on its face, the onset date CAN POSSIBLY be before a person quits work, but I believe it is very rare that The Social Security Administration would list one's date of benefits to begin at any time during one's period of even partial employment (unless you could give an actual case in which it has happened). It is far more conceivable that such benefits would be determined to begin during a period of non-ability to work at all, given the fact it usually takes 2 years or longer to attain such benefits.

The Social Security Admisnistration is in the business to save money where possible, so certainly, after a 2 year battle to get benefits where the applicant is claiming benefits retroactive for 2 years plus a period in which such applicant is claiming partial benefits because they only worked part-time, the ALJ would probably list the onset of benefits to begin AFTER the applicant was no longer able to work due to disability. After such disability benefits become accepted, then it is explained where the disabled person can attempt to work and still get benefits, but I've never heard or seen a case in which partial benefits are paid retroactively as you describe, Ladyback1. This is just based on my opinion. You may have concrete evidence in the form of case documentation to show otherwise, which would enlighten me. If so, I'd like to see it!

 

[Proserpina]

Let's not forget that some patients (TERI) can be approved less than 90 days after filing.

Let's also not forget the difference between the AOD and the DOD.

Finally, in some cases the last paycheck isn't actually relevant at all.

 

[quincy]

Here is an informative link on how the date of onset for purposes of SSDI is determined:

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/OP_Home/rulings/di/01/SSR83-20-di-01.html

I agree with Ladyback1's first post that the date an applicant puts down on the application as the date of first onset is not as important as other factors, and I agree with Ladyback1's second post and the post by Proserpina.

Needless to say (or rather, despite what Nellibelle has said), there are no "absolutely for sures" here.

 

[Ladyback1]

I never said one's chances for getting benefits accepted were enhanced by getting an Attorney for the initial application! I said that getting an Attorney or advocate would enhance one's chances of getting approved, period! I agree, on its face, the onset date CAN POSSIBLY be before a person quits work, but I believe it is very rare that The Social Security Administration would list one's date of benefits to begin at any time during one's period of even partial employment (unless you could give an actual case in which it has happened). It is far more conceivable that such benefits would be determined to begin during a period of non-ability to work at all, given the fact it usually takes 2 years or longer to attain such benefits.

The Social Security Admisnistration is in the business to save money where possible, so certainly, after a 2 year battle to get benefits where the applicant is claiming benefits retroactive for 2 years plus a period in which such applicant is claiming partial benefits because they only worked part-time, the ALJ would probably list the onset of benefits to begin AFTER the applicant was no longer able to work due to disability. After such disability benefits become accepted, then it is explained where the disabled person can attempt to work and still get benefits, but I've never heard or seen a case in which partial benefits are paid retroactively as you describe, Ladyback1. This is just based on my opinion. You may have concrete evidence in the form of case documentation to show otherwise, which would enlighten me. If so, I'd like to see it!

I can't provide specifics--it would violate confidentiality!

However: especially in the cases of the mental/psychological disable, the date of onset can be just about anytime--if they were able to hold it together and maintain employment for 6 mo., but skip a few months, then work for a few months (wash, rinse and repeat for years) they can be found to be disabled prior to the last time they worked.

Nellibelle: What is the life experience from which you draw your "opinions"?
I will tell you mine--I worked in the Disability Determination Services for the state. The state actually makes the determination (according to SSA guidelines), not SSA!
I don't know everything about SSA/SSI/SSDI, but what you are spouting is not accurate and you need to stop!

 

[Proserpina]

I can't provide specifics--it would violate confidentiality!

However: especially in the cases of the mental/psychological disable, the date of onset can be just about anytime--if they were able to hold it together and maintain employment for 6 mo., but skip a few months, then work for a few months (wash, rinse and repeat for years) they can be found to be disabled prior to the last time they worked.

Nellibelle: What is the life experience from which you draw your "opinions"?
I will tell you mine--I worked in the Disability Determination Services for the state. The state actually makes the determination (according to SSA guidelines), not SSA!
I don't know everything about SSA/SSI/SSDI, but what you are spouting is not accurate and you need to stop!

I'd actually like to see an answer to your question.

Because one of two things will happen. Nelli will either tell you a blatant falsehood, or simply confirm what we already know

 

[Nellibelle]

I can't provide specifics--it would violate confidentiality!

However: especially in the cases of the mental/psychological disable, the date of onset can be just about anytime--if they were able to hold it together and maintain employment for 6 mo., but skip a few months, then work for a few months (wash, rinse and repeat for years) they can be found to be disabled prior to the last time they worked.

Nellibelle: What is the life experience from which you draw your "opinions"?
I will tell you mine--I worked in the Disability Determination Services for the state. The state actually makes the determination (according to SSA guidelines), not SSA!
I don't know everything about SSA/SSI/SSDI, but what you are spouting is not accurate and you need to stop!

"If they were able to hold it together and maintain employment for 6 months; but skip a few months, then work for a few months (wsh, rinse and repeat for years) they can be found to be disabled prior to the3 last time they worked."

What? What exactly does the above quote mean? If someone claiming to be disabled, worked for 6 months and then skipped a few months before working a few more months tried to file a SSDI claim based on being disabled due to mental reasons, they wouldn't suceed, since a person has to be disabled and unable to work for 6 months before you can apply for SSDI, unless you can document a terminal illness (for example).

And as far as you having experience with the disability determination services for the state, carries no weight with me since the Social Security Administration quite frequently misinterprets disabilities under their very own guidelines by denying claims to applicants that really need and are eligible for benefits, before an Attorney has to help such applicants get their benefits years later during the appellant process and then, some still don't get their benefits despite the fact they've paid into the system for years.

 

[quincy]

"If they were able to hold it together and maintain employment for 6 months; but skip a few months, then work for a few months (wsh, rinse and repeat for years) they can be found to be disabled prior to the3 last time they worked."

What? What exactly does the above quote mean? If someone claiming to be disabled, worked for 6 months and then skipped a few months before working a few more months tried to file a SSDI claim based on being disabled due to mental reasons, they wouldn't suceed, since a person has to be disabled and unable to work for 6 months before you can apply for SSDI, unless you can document a terminal illness (for example).

And as far as you having experience with the disability determination services for the state, carries no weight with me since the Social Security Administration quite frequently misinterprets disabilities under their very own guidelines by denying claims to applicants that really need and are eligible for benefits, before an Attorney has to help such applicants get their benefits years later during the appellant process and then, some still don't get their benefits despite the fact they've paid into the system for years.

Please answer Ladyback1's question about your experience, Nellibelle.

You are posting incorrect information once again and I think it is probably due to the fact that you have no experience at all and just like to guess a lot. At least, that is what I am gathering from your posting history to date.

 

[Nellibelle]

Please answer Ladyback1's question about your experience, Nellibelle.

You are posting incorrect information once again and I think it is probably due to the fact that you have no experience at all and just like to guess a lot. At least, that is what I am gathering from your posting history to date.

My experience includes helping my father apply for SSDI several years ago and a couple years ago, helping my mother apply for benefits based on a visit to the SSA office in which one of the reps advised of the need to file an application. Both claims received the assistance of an Attorney and my father's claim was accepted during the first stage and my mother's claim was denied during the first stage, the reconsideration stage and now, a hearing before the ALJ has been scheduled! I've been keep abreast of both claims in their entirety and have learned alot about how the process works, not only by research and what my parents are/have dealt with, but by what the Attorney has told me.

I know that the onset date of disability has a lot to do with not being able to work AT ALL! So, my belief that it would be very rare if not improbable for someone to get retroactive benefits for a partial disability that began during employment that was still partially maintained--especially after a 2 year battle to secure benefits.

I hate to disappoint anyone, but there's no guessing on my part because my posts are based on experience. The fact you, Quincy think I have no experience at all was, in fact, a guess!