Divocrcing an alcoholic- advice on multiple legal situations needed!

[writer1989]

CA

Hi,

I'm posting this on behalf of my boyfriend, who I'm trying to help out. He's been married for about 10 years, separated (not legally) for three, to his wife, whom they have three children with. One his biologically his, and the other two (twin girls) are legally his as he adopted them when they got married. They're divorcing for irreconcilable differences, which are numerous and unnecessary to list here.

Basically, the situation is that he's paying her $3K a month to take care of the kids, who live with her in a house. But in the last two years or so she's been suffering from alcoholism, and disappears binge drinking for several days and drops the ball on making sure her kids are safe and well taken care of.

She's attempted to get herself help a few times, but ends up backsliding, and he can't afford to send her to rehab. And after her most recent binge, she's decided that he is no longer allowed to come into the house at all. Tonight he went to take his daughters to the movies but nothing was on, and when they suggested going to the house and watching a movie at home, she told him that she would call the police. Technically, his name isn't on the lease even though he is paying for the house rental, so I guess if she called the police they would throw him out? Not clear on this.

He has pictures and videos of her passed out drunk in her car, beer spilled all over her, liquor bottles overflowing from hiding places in her room and even in her 10 year old son's room.

Right now he's trying to decide whether or not he should take the children from her. If he were going to do that, would he have to call child services? Could he call child services simply based on the past incidents and show them photos, or would he have to wait for her to go on another drinking binge? What kind of action would child services take? Would he have to hire a lawyer, or could he go solo on this?

They've been "mid-divorce" for the last year or so, and he had papers drawn up using Legal Zoom, which he hasn't filed yet because he didn't realize he was supposed to file them first and then have hers served to her. The point of contention right now is that she won't sign the papers unless he agrees to take out life insurance, which he's refusing to do. If he files the papers and has hers served to her, and she responds and says she won't sign them, what would he have to do next? Would he have to hire a lawyer? Would she have to hire a lawyer? Would they just be in a stalemate because neither of them can agree on this one point?

I know this is long-winded, but to sum it up I'm basically asking what the best way of proceeding to take the children from her is and what the consequences of that are, and also what the consequences would be of her refusing to sign the divorce papers.

Any advice would be much appreciated. Thank you!

 

[Proserpina]

CA

Hi,

I'm posting this on behalf of my boyfriend, who I'm trying to help out. He's been married for about 10 years, separated (not legally) for three, to his wife, whom they have three children with. One his biologically his, and the other two (twin girls) are legally his as he adopted them when they got married. They're divorcing for irreconcilable differences, which are numerous and unnecessary to list here.

So he's married, and has three children with his..well, not quite ex. Current wife.

Basically, the situation is that he's paying her $3K a month to take care of the kids, who live with her in a house. But in the last two years or so she's been suffering from alcoholism, and disappears binge drinking for several days and drops the ball on making sure her kids are safe and well taken care of.

Okay.

She's attempted to get herself help a few times, but ends up backsliding, and he can't afford to send her to rehab. And after her most recent binge, she's decided that he is no longer allowed to come into the house at all. Tonight he went to take his daughters to the movies but nothing was on, and when they suggested going to the house and watching a movie at home, she told him that she would call the police. Technically, his name isn't on the lease even though he is paying for the house rental, so I guess if she called the police they would throw him out? Not clear on this.

Her rental, her name on the lease? Yeap, he can be arrested for trespassing. The court doesn't care who's paying for it, the police even less so.

He has pictures and videos of her passed out drunk in her car, beer spilled all over her, liquor bottles overflowing from hiding places in her room and even in her 10 year old son's room.

...who on earth would take pictures rather than getting the children out of there?

Right now he's trying to decide whether or not he should take the children from her. If he were going to do that, would he have to call child services? Could he call child services simply based on the past incidents and show them photos, or would he have to wait for her to go on another drinking binge? What kind of action would child services take? Would he have to hire a lawyer, or could he go solo on this?

Child services are also going to say, "Hang on - you TOOK PHOTOS but didn't bother reporting anything until it suits you right now?".

He should probably get an attorney; he's wobbling dangerously close to child endangerment himself. She's so drunk that he feels the need to take photos, but not so drunk that he doesn't remove the children?

They've been "mid-divorce" for the last year or so, and he had papers drawn up using Legal Zoom, which he hasn't filed yet because he didn't realize he was supposed to file them first and then have hers served to her.

I'm now certain you don't have all the details.

The point of contention right now is that she won't sign the papers unless he agrees to take out life insurance, which he's refusing to do.

What's he going to do if the court orders him to carry life insurance?

If he files the papers and has hers served to her, and she responds and says she won't sign them, what would he have to do next? Would he have to hire a lawyer? Would she have to hire a lawyer? Would they just be in a stalemate because neither of them can agree on this one point?

I know this is long-winded, but to sum it up I'm basically asking what the best way of proceeding to take the children from her is and what the consequences of that are, and also what the consequences would be of her refusing to sign the divorce papers.

Any advice would be much appreciated. Thank you!

There are some major hiccups here - and yes, it's true that it's not your legal problem. I do wonder what has prompted this sudden concern. Been dating long? It never occurred to him before now that the children might be at risk?

She doesn't face any consequences of not signing - the law doesn't require her to sign. He needs to think VERY carefully about what he wants to do (versus what you think he should do) - if nothing else, he's going to look silly at best...and dangerous at worst.... for letting the children remain with such an obvious danger.

Unless she isn't actually a threat at all.

 

[writer1989]

So he's married, and has three children with his..well, not quite ex. Current wife.



Okay.



Her rental, her name on the lease? Yeap, he can be arrested for trespassing. The court doesn't care who's paying for it, the police even less so.



...who on earth would take pictures rather than getting the children out of there?



Child services are also going to say, "Hang on - you TOOK PHOTOS but didn't bother reporting anything until it suits you right now?".

He should probably get an attorney; he's wobbling dangerously close to child endangerment himself. She's so drunk that he feels the need to take photos, but not so drunk that he doesn't remove the children?



I'm now certain you don't have all the details.



What's he going to do if the court orders him to carry life insurance?




There are some major hiccups here - and yes, it's true that it's not your legal problem. I do wonder what has prompted this sudden concern. Been dating long? It never occurred to him before now that the children might be at risk?

She doesn't face any consequences of not signing - the law doesn't require her to sign. He needs to think VERY carefully about what he wants to do (versus what you think he should do) - if nothing else, he's going to look silly at best...and dangerous at worst.... for letting the children remain with such an obvious danger.

Unless she isn't actually a threat at all.

Thanks for answering.

The reason he didn't "get the children out of there" was because he had no place to take them - he's renting a single room in an apartment. So what ends up happening every time this happens is he stays at the house and takes care of the kids while she's either passed out in her bed, or she's passed out at her boyfriend's house. Once she recovers, she turns into a mother hen and insists that she's taking care of them and so on and she doesn't want him in her life.

According to him, she's had this whole thing "under control" for awhile (nearly a year?), so he thought she was fine and that she was recovering until she backslid recently. He's concerned about taking the kids right now because his wife and kids just moved to another school district weeks ago and are in the process of enrollment and he is afraid that he'll endanger that and then they'll end up out of school.

You're absolutely right that I don't have all the details. After all, it's not my divorce. I've been dating him nearly six months, and had to help him deal with this by coming over and helping to take care of his kids, which is why I'm going out of my way to ask about this because I'm now getting involved. It's happened twice since we've been dating; the first time about a month ago when I came to help him out, and the second time this last weekend, while we were on vacation and out of town and she was supposed to be taking care of the kids. He had to call a friend and ask them to take care of his kids until we got back.

So, coming back around, you're saying that if he went to child services right now they would slap both of them?

And why would a court order him to take out life insurance? Is that a usual thing to do?

Oh and I guess to a certain degree the children themselves aren't physically in danger from her as a drunk. She isn't driving them around drunk or anything. But having them home alone for days is another story. In the past he was living with her when this would happen and so they weren't alone. But now it's happening again and they are. So it's more of an issue.

 

[Ladyback1]

Thanks for answering.

The reason he didn't "get the children out of there" was because he had no place to take them - he's renting a single room in an apartment. So what ends up happening every time this happens is he stays at the house and takes care of the kids while she's either passed out in her bed, or she's passed out at her boyfriend's house. Once she recovers, she turns into a mother hen and insists that she's taking care of them and so on and she doesn't want him in her life.

According to him, she's had this whole thing "under control" for awhile (nearly a year?), so he thought she was fine and that she was recovering until she backslid recently. He's concerned about taking the kids right now because his wife and kids just moved to another school district weeks ago and are in the process of enrollment and he is afraid that he'll endanger that and then they'll end up out of school.

You're absolutely right that I don't have all the details. After all, it's not my divorce. I've been dating him nearly six months, and had to help him deal with this by coming over and helping to take care of his kids, which is why I'm going out of my way to ask about this because I'm now getting involved. It's happened twice since we've been dating; the first time about a month ago when I came to help him out, and the second time this last weekend, while we were on vacation and out of town and she was supposed to be taking care of the kids. He had to call a friend and ask them to take care of his kids until we got back.

So, coming back around, you're saying that if he went to child services right now they would slap both of them?

And why would a court order him to take out life insurance? Is that a usual thing to do?

Oh and I guess to a certain degree the children themselves aren't physically in danger from her as a drunk. She isn't driving them around drunk or anything. But having them home alone for days is another story. In the past he was living with her when this would happen and so they weren't alone. But now it's happening again and they are. So it's more of an issue.

Oh HUN!

You need to run, not walk away from this man.

Just run and run without looking back.

 

[writer1989]

Oh HUN!

You need to run, not walk away from this man.

Just run and run without looking back.

Right... because it's not like I care about him or want to help him or anything.

 

[Proserpina]

Thanks for answering.

The reason he didn't "get the children out of there" was because he had no place to take them - he's renting a single room in an apartment. So what ends up happening every time this happens is he stays at the house and takes care of the kids while she's either passed out in her bed, or she's passed out at her boyfriend's house. Once she recovers, she turns into a mother hen and insists that she's taking care of them and so on and she doesn't want him in her life.

According to him, she's had this whole thing "under control" for awhile (nearly a year?), so he thought she was fine and that she was recovering until she backslid recently. He's concerned about taking the kids right now because his wife and kids just moved to another school district weeks ago and are in the process of enrollment and he is afraid that he'll endanger that and then they'll end up out of school.

Here's the problem. It doesn't MATTER that he had nowhere himself - if those children were genuinely at risk, they needed to be taken no matter where they ended up temporarily.

You're absolutely right that I don't have all the details. After all, it's not my divorce. I've been dating him nearly six months, and had to help him deal with this by coming over and helping to take care of his kids, which is why I'm going out of my way to ask about this because I'm now getting involved. It's happened twice since we've been dating; the first time about a month ago when I came to help him out, and the second time this last weekend, while we were on vacation and out of town and she was supposed to be taking care of the kids. He had to call a friend and ask them to take care of his kids until we got back.

So, coming back around, you're saying that if he went to child services right now they would slap both of them?

No, I'm actually saying that if he reported what happened three weeks ago, now, he's going to be treated with at least some suspicion.

And why would a court order him to take out life insurance? Is that a usual thing to do?

It's common enough for me to mention it, yes. Think about it - it protects the children.

Oh and I guess to a certain degree the children themselves aren't physically in danger from her as a drunk. She isn't driving them around drunk or anything. But having them home alone for days is another story. In the past he was living with her when this would happen and so they weren't alone. But now it's happening again and they are. So it's more of an issue.

Then he needs to get ahold of the situation and sit down with an attorney first thing on Monday.

He can discuss filing IMMEDIATELY for temporary custody pending a final order.

And yeah, I'm with Ladyback here (and that's not too common - we're obviously onto something, right LB?). I don't think you're getting the full story, and I think he's doing as much damage control as he can to make sure you stick around as a potential child-minder instead of running for the hills.

This whole story stinks, writer. One of two things is happening.

Either there's a lot you're not being told, or there's a lot you're pushing him to do when he's not that keen on acting out of his own choice. Tread carefully (if for no other reason than your own sanity).

 

[writer1989]

Here's the problem. It doesn't MATTER that he had nowhere himself - if those children were genuinely at risk, they needed to be taken no matter where they ended up temporarily.



No, I'm actually saying that if he reported what happened three weeks ago, now, he's going to be treated with at least some suspicion.



It's common enough for me to mention it, yes. Think about it - it protects the children.



Then he needs to get ahold of the situation and sit down with an attorney first thing on Monday.

He can discuss filing IMMEDIATELY for temporary custody pending a final order.

And yeah, I'm with Ladyback here (and that's not too common - we're obviously onto something, right LB?). I don't think you're getting the full story, and I think he's doing as much damage control as he can to make sure you stick around as a potential child-minder instead of running for the hills.

This whole story stinks, writer. One of two things is happening.

Either there's a lot you're not being told, or there's a lot you're pushing him to do when he's not that keen on acting out of his own choice. Tread carefully (if for no other reason than your own sanity).

Thanks. This does help. The truth is that I actually do know more than what I'm telling you here but I'm refraining from posting it all because, well, this is the internet. The truth is that he's been trying to take the easy way out and trying to get her help and hoping she'll recover because he doesn't want his kids to hate him for taking their mother away. I'm trying to get him to see that he needs to get over this whole idea and do it anyway. He has been talking with me about it and going over the scenarios and asked me to try to help him get more information so he can make a decision. So that's what I'm trying to do.

It definitely stinks, but I empathize because I just recently came back from putting my stepfather in jail for domestic violence and helping my mother recover and start divorce proceedings and set up care for my little sister. So I want to do what I can to help him.

 

[Proserpina]

Thanks. This does help. The truth is that I actually do know more than what I'm telling you here but I'm refraining from posting it all because, well, this is the internet. The truth is that he's been trying to take the easy way out and trying to get her help and hoping she'll recover because he doesn't want his kids to hate him for taking their mother away. I'm trying to get him to see that he needs to get over this whole idea and do it anyway. He has been talking with me about it and going over the scenarios and asked me to try to help him get more information so he can make a decision. So that's what I'm trying to do.

It definitely stinks, but I empathize because I just recently came back from putting my stepfather in jail for domestic violence and helping my mother recover and start divorce proceedings and set up care for my little sister. So I want to do what I can to help him.

I'm going to be brutally honest with you here.

Stop. Stop trying to save him.

You're not going to win this one. If he does what you recommend and something goes awry, it'll be your fault. If he doesn't do what you recommend and something still goes awry...it'll still be your fault. What's perhaps worse is the reality that if he can't or won't take charge, he's giving you some very big red warning signs....if he won't step up to the plate to be there for his own children, he's not going to do it for anyone else. And I'm not even touching on how rough Mom can make his life if she gets so much as an inkling that you're involving yourself in matters that aren't yours to begin with.

Sit him down, tell him you love him but this is on him now. Heck, have him come here himself. Please.

 

[Ladyback1]

And yeah, I'm with Ladyback here (and that's not too common - we're obviously onto something, right LB?).

It's a full moon!

 

[CdwJava]

Basically, the situation is that he's paying her $3K a month to take care of the kids, who live with her in a house. But in the last two years or so she's been suffering from alcoholism, and disappears binge drinking for several days and drops the ball on making sure her kids are safe and well taken care of.

What does this mean? Does she leave the kids unattended and feeding out of trash cans and changing their own diapers for days on end? Does she come and go in a stupor? Or, does she leave the kids with a family member or friend while she heads off to party?

He has pictures and videos of her passed out drunk in her car, beer spilled all over her, liquor bottles overflowing from hiding places in her room and even in her 10 year old son's room.

Keep in mind that HE can be held liable for failing to protect the children if he could see that they were at risk and he failed to take any action. He is just as legally responsible as she is.

If he feels that they are at risk, then he needs to take affirmative action to protect the children ASAP. If this means calling the police or CPS, so be it. Best would be to file for emergency custody ... or, since they are not divorced, he could simply pick his children up then file for emergency custody and separation. Assuming they are legally married and these are his children, he has the same legal rights to them as she does. He may need to divert the $3,000 per month he pays her to a bigger apartment for him and his kids.

He needs to do something as he shares liability for the children's welfare.