Tenant messing with outside security camera.

[Hawaii96778]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
Hello,

Got a question and prior to posting I did search the internet to find out the laws on security cameras and rental properties.

Which property can have "Outside" as long as tenant was notified prior to signing lease but not "inside” the living area as that is considered an invasion of privacy? Outside is considered public similar to what an apartment complex or condo's etc. The property owner does have the right to secure the outside of their property with surveillance cameras to detour robbers, ensure no criminal activity is taking place on their property etc. But one cannot have cameras on the inside of the rental unless it is a rental where just rooms are rented then you can have them in the inside but only in a common area.

See I did my research on that part..

So here it is - we have a home in Hawaii that we rented to some tenants for duration of 5 months. They have no option to extend it is a set term of days any rate.

The house is completely furnished, towels, linens, cookware, furniture everything move in ready. This is our winter home and we return every fall. This is the first time we ever rented it out as we were strapped for cash and rented it to offset the cost of the expenses on it. We also pay for the internet, phone, Dish satellite, water they pay for electric.

We offered them an extremely ridiculous low rent as they were to maintain the yard (mow every 3 weeks or when needed) if they did not want to do this then they were to hire a yard maintenance company to do so at their expense, and keep the house and furnishings in a reasonable and good condition. We showed them the camera systems and told them that we would disable the one in the house and also the one on the outside large deck area, but we wanted the ones that pointed to the entry ways on to stay on as last year there were robberies all around our house (we figured the cameras were the only thing that saved our home). They had no problem with having the cameras on whatsoever - the cameras do not point in the yard just mainly at the door entries. The cameras do not have audio and do not show film inside the home.

Well a couple things, we are back at our Summer home on the mainland and now and we have not been able to get ahold of them, the number they gave us for contact (which prior to them moving in worked wonderfully) now you only get a message this phone has not been set up to accept messages. They do not respond to emails for over a month now. We virtually have no way to get ahold of them except to send a written letter, signature requested. Which we may have to do.

Since we do have the outside cameras, one faces the main entry door and driveway, 2nd faces the other driveway, 3rd the back door and utility shed, 4th patio sliders on small deck off kitchen.

First thing we noticed is - they have not been keeping up with the lawn. You can see part of the lawn in 2 of the camera so you can tell if it is being maintained or not. They mowed once in 9 weeks!

Now just a couple days ago they turned one of the cameras so it does not show on the patio sliders anymore so that entry way we have no way to monitor. The camera now points to the sky.

We have sent a couple emails asking them to point it back, no response, we have called the number they gave and of course no answer and cannot leave a message. So I thought "Idea" I will call the home phone and the answering machine will kick on and they can hear me. So I called and let it ring about 10 times the answering machine kicked on so I left a message for them to call us and to please move the camera back to the position to the patio door. I know she was home as 5 minutes after I left the message I seen the wife get in her car and drive away. so I know she heard me and I am sure the answering machine which has caller ID showed it was me.

So what are our options? Sorry did not mean to write a book but I am just frustrated. I figured they moved that one camera as you could see part of the deck and it was getting messy with their stuff (something tells me they are not the cleanest people) so they probably did not want us to see that. We are now concerned with how the inside of home is being maintained.

Not sure what we can do? Should we hire a friend of ours to go over there but we are supposed to give advanced notice so not sure how we should handle this being so far away. I don't want to call their work and ask to speak with the tenants (that’s not good) nor do I want to make them angry so they damage things.. .. Gosh just feel like we are stuck in a rock and a hard place.

Oh they did pay for the 5 months rental upfront and they have 12 weeks left.

Any suggestions or are we SOL?

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
Hello,

Got a question and prior to posting I did search the internet to find out the laws on security cameras and rental properties.

Which property can have "Outside" as long as tenant was notified prior to signing lease but not "inside” the living area as that is considered an invasion of privacy? Outside is considered public similar to what an apartment complex or condo's etc. The property owner does have the right to secure the outside of their property with surveillance cameras to detour robbers, ensure no criminal activity is taking place on their property etc. But one cannot have cameras on the inside of the rental unless it is a rental where just rooms are rented then you can have them in the inside but only in a common area.

See I did my research on that part..

So here it is - we have a home in Hawaii that we rented to some tenants for duration of 5 months. They have no option to extend it is a set term of days any rate.

The house is completely furnished, towels, linens, cookware, furniture everything move in ready. This is our winter home and we return every fall. This is the first time we ever rented it out as we were strapped for cash and rented it to offset the cost of the expenses on it. We also pay for the internet, phone, Dish satellite, water they pay for electric.

We offered them an extremely ridiculous low rent as they were to maintain the yard (mow every 3 weeks or when needed) if they did not want to do this then they were to hire a yard maintenance company to do so at their expense, and keep the house and furnishings in a reasonable and good condition. We showed them the camera systems and told them that we would disable the one in the house and also the one on the outside large deck area, but we wanted the ones that pointed to the entry ways on to stay on as last year there were robberies all around our house (we figured the cameras were the only thing that saved our home). They had no problem with having the cameras on whatsoever - the cameras do not point in the yard just mainly at the door entries. The cameras do not have audio and do not show film inside the home.

Well a couple things, we are back at our Summer home on the mainland and now and we have not been able to get ahold of them, the number they gave us for contact (which prior to them moving in worked wonderfully) now you only get a message this phone has not been set up to accept messages. They do not respond to emails for over a month now. We virtually have no way to get ahold of them except to send a written letter, signature requested. Which we may have to do.

Since we do have the outside cameras, one faces the main entry door and driveway, 2nd faces the other driveway, 3rd the back door and utility shed, 4th patio sliders on small deck off kitchen.

First thing we noticed is - they have not been keeping up with the lawn. You can see part of the lawn in 2 of the camera so you can tell if it is being maintained or not. They mowed once in 9 weeks!

Now just a couple days ago they turned one of the cameras so it does not show on the patio sliders anymore so that entry way we have no way to monitor. The camera now points to the sky.

We have sent a couple emails asking them to point it back, no response, we have called the number they gave and of course no answer and cannot leave a message. So I thought "Idea" I will call the home phone and the answering machine will kick on and they can hear me. So I called and let it ring about 10 times the answering machine kicked on so I left a message for them to call us and to please move the camera back to the position to the patio door. I know she was home as 5 minutes after I left the message I seen the wife get in her car and drive away. so I know she heard me and I am sure the answering machine which has caller ID showed it was me.

So what are our options? Sorry did not mean to write a book but I am just frustrated. I figured they moved that one camera as you could see part of the deck and it was getting messy with their stuff (something tells me they are not the cleanest people) so they probably did not want us to see that. We are now concerned with how the inside of home is being maintained.

Not sure what we can do? Should we hire a friend of ours to go over there but we are supposed to give advanced notice so not sure how we should handle this being so far away. I don't want to call their work and ask to speak with the tenants (that’s not good) nor do I want to make them angry so they damage things.. .. Gosh just feel like we are stuck in a rock and a hard place.

Oh they did pay for the 5 months rental upfront and they have 12 weeks left.

Any suggestions or are we SOL?

You could send them a letter, return receipt requested, or, if they have an internet and an email address, you could communicate with them that way.

If they still fail to respond to your calls/letters/emails, you could probably call the police to do a "wellness" check on the tenants. You can say that you have been unable to reach your tenants and, although there is indication that the female tenant has been in the house, the surveillance cameras mounted on the exterior appear to have been tampered with.

 

[Hawaii96778]

You could send them a letter, return receipt requested, or, if they have an internet and an email address, you could communicate with them that way.

If they still fail to respond to your calls/letters/emails, you could probably call the police to do a "wellness" check on the tenants. You can say that you have been unable to reach your tenants and, although there is indication that the female tenant has been in the house, the surveillance cameras mounted on the exterior appear to have been tampered with.

Thanks those are good ideas. We have tried via email they do not respond to any emails I send. There is internet in the home as we are paying for it its included in their rent and it is working fine. They are just ignoring us...plain and simple.

Our rental agreement does state we can check / enter house with advanced notice.. but if you can't get ahold of them to notify then?? Never thought of sending the police out there.. but I think that would just make the tenants angry and since we really do not know much about them maybe best to just leave things be and hope for the best.

We will though a week or so before they are supposed to move out - send them a letter receipt requested and give a date and time when we will have someone come out to check the house prior to them vacating and to collect the mailbox keys and extra keys like for tool shed etc prior to them leaving. I will also state if they are not home on X date that someone we assign will be entering the home on our behalf.

If anything we do need an address to send their security deposit back to them if they have not done any major damage and the home is clean.

Thank you again for your response. Truely appreciate it. We are new landlords per say and just want people to treat our home and belongings as good as we do. Figured if we gave them a good deal they in return would respect us and our property - this does not seem to be happening.

Next time we will charge more (rental market value) for what the place is worth.. these people got a steller deal, just thought they would be more considerate is all for the hospitality we have given them. Unfortunately a learning lesson!

 

[FarmerJ]

If these people move out on time and you do the deposit disposition with in the time line that state requires you can send it to the tenants last known address the one they rented from you if you do not have a forwarding addy , just send it certified if the tenant did not submit a forwarding address then the letter will come back to you , keep it sealed in its orig envelope so if you end up in court the court can see you attempted to send and ask the tenant why they did not pick up their mail as they deliver to the tenant your letter.

 

[STEPHAN]

I would find a friend and send him over - just to make sure.

 

[Hawaii96778]

If these people move out on time and you do the deposit disposition with in the time line that state requires you can send it to the tenants last known address the one they rented from you if you do not have a forwarding addy , just send it certified if the tenant did not submit a forwarding address then the letter will come back to you , keep it sealed in its orig envelope so if you end up in court the court can see you attempted to send and ask the tenant why they did not pick up their mail as they deliver to the tenant your letter.

Thanks for the information - will do as you stated.

 

[Hawaii96778]

I would find a friend and send him over - just to make sure.

We may do that I re-read our rental agreement and it does state this.

13. INSPECTION OF PREMISES. Landlord and Landlord's agents shall have the right at all reasonable times during the term of this Agreement and any renewal thereof to enter the Premises for the purpose of inspecting the Premises and all buildings and improvements thereon. And for the purposes of making any repairs, additions or alterations as may be deemed appropriate by Landlord for the preservation of the Premises or the building.


~ Since we did not state we have to give advanced notice does that mean we could send someone over at any "reasonalble" time without giving advanced notice?

They are not responding to any of our attempted contact with them, there really would be no way we could give them advanced noticed unless we wrote letter with receipt request. I think according to our agreement we are not obligated to give advanced notice correct?

Does this mean our friend (which is also the one who we asked would manage/maintain the property for us if needed) whom has a key could enter our home even if the tenants were not home? Or course we would not do this all the time but we would like to send him over atleast once to check on the inside of the home for us.


Thank you all for your responses they have been most helpful.

 

[Zigner]

We may do that I re-read our rental agreement and it does state this.

13. INSPECTION OF PREMISES. Landlord and Landlord's agents shall have the right at all reasonable times during the term of this Agreement and any renewal thereof to enter the Premises for the purpose of inspecting the Premises and all buildings and improvements thereon. And for the purposes of making any repairs, additions or alterations as may be deemed appropriate by Landlord for the preservation of the Premises or the building.


~ Since we did not state we have to give advanced notice does that mean we could send someone over at any "reasonalble" time without giving advanced notice?

They are not responding to any of our attempted contact with them, there really would be no way we could give them advanced noticed unless we wrote letter with receipt request. I think according to our agreement we are not obligated to give advanced notice correct?

Does this mean our friend (which is also the one who we asked would manage/maintain the property for us if needed) whom has a key could enter our home even if the tenants were not home? Or course we would not do this all the time but we would like to send him over atleast once to check on the inside of the home for us.


Thank you all for your responses they have been most helpful.

You will have to follow state law with regard to notice.

 

[Hawaii96778]

You will have to follow state law with regard to notice.

OK I looked up Hawaii State - and looks like we do have to give (2) days notice.

[§521-53] Access. (a) The tenant shall not unreasonably withhold the tenant's consent to the landlord to enter into the dwelling unit in order to inspect the premises; make necessary or agreed repairs, decorations, alterations, or improvements; supply services as agreed; or exhibit the dwelling unit to prospective purchasers, mortgagees, or tenants.

(b) The landlord shall not abuse this right of access nor use it to harass the tenant. Except in case of emergency or where impracticable to do so, the landlord shall give the tenant at least two days notice of the landlord's intent to enter and shall enter only during reasonable hours.

(c) The landlord shall have no other right of entry, except by court order, unless the tenant appears to have abandoned the premises, or as permitted by section 521-70(b). [L 1972, c 132, pt of §1; gen ch 1985]

So how do we give notice if we cannot get ahold of them? They are not answering OR acknowledging emails we have sent or answering phone or responding to messages left.

I guess send a letter receipt requested with a specific date down or could our property manager go over and leave a note on the door stating what date he would be coming over? Probally less expensive to just write the letter receipt request as we have to pay our friend/manager his time and gas to over over there even to leave a note.

Would a letter receipt requested be fine? Does it have to be certified and if so - what if they refuse to sign for the letter? Would recept requested work as far as notification? They are using our postal box (as we gave them the key) so if it was receipt requested it would be that it was delivered to the mailbox correct? Sometimes in Hawaii if the letter will not fit in the box you have to go to the post office direct to pick it up. Maybe send in one of those large priority envelopes that I know cannot fit in our box so they HAVE to go to post office to pick it up.

BUT what if they refuse to go pick it up? Trying to get all my ducks in a row... very nerve racking having property that has an ocean inbetween - it's not like jump in the car and go.