Defective Product

[roomie]

First, I will assume that there has been no "natural disaster, terrorist attack or any other circumstances" beyond the company's control that would prevent the company from issuing a cash refund.

What sort of mistakes are you claiming the company made that led to you rejecting 4 designs out of 6 (for a total of 120 rejected prints)?

I do not see how you can expect a refund for the 2 designs approved and completed. It sounds as if you might be thinking you can collect not only for the entire order placed with the company (the approved and completed designs and the designs under dispute) but also for your loss of profit and time, and for your frustration and aggravation, and for feeling bullied. I suggest you scale back a bit on your expectations. You can potentially get a partial refund for the work not completed (or completed to your satisfaction). Collecting on anything else does not seem to be within the realm of possibility, based on what you have stated here.

I do not recommend giving the company a bad review on Yelp or elsewhere. Posting a review may make you feel better temporarily but it stands to accomplish little and, if the review is not very carefully worded, you put yourself at risk of a lawsuit.

I am not going to comment on the contract terms you quoted because the contract needs to be personally reviewed in its entirety by a professional in your area. You might want to sit down with an attorney if you feel you are entitled to a full cash refund and are thinking of taking the company to court. You can contact the state Bar Association for attorneys in your area or perhaps there is a legal aid clinic in your area where, for no or low cost, you can have someone take a look at the contract, go over the facts with you, and provide an opinion.

Thanks very much! I will contact them...

 

[quincy]

Thanks very much! I will contact them...

You're welcome. Good luck, roomie, both in settling your dispute with the novelty printing company and with your tee-shirt business.

One additional note: Your tee-shirt designs were automatically copyrighted when they were created, so you have copyright protection should the works be infringed. If you want to be eligible for statutory damages if your designs are copied by anyone without your authorization, you should consider registering them with the US Copyright Office (http://www.copyright.gov). It is $35 per registration.

 

[roomie]

You're welcome. Good luck, roomie, both in settling your dispute with the novelty printing company and with your tee-shirt business.

One additional note: Your tee-shirt designs were automatically copyrighted when they were created, so you have copyright protection should the works be infringed. If you want to be eligible for statutory damages if your designs are copied by anyone without your authorization, you should consider registering them with the US Copyright Office (http://www.copyright.gov). It is $35 per registration.

Really appreciate all this input...

 

[roomie]

If i prove to small claims court their sloppy work and the manner in which they produced the unacceptable goods which could have been avoided if not for inefficiency and mishandling, will I have a chance for a full refund? If not, then I have to suffer all that loss plus i will have to incur future losses? If so, it seems the justice system is more favorable to these predatory businesses, giving their customers what they did not pay for?

 

[quincy]

If i prove to small claims court their sloppy work and the manner in which they produced the unacceptable goods which could have been avoided if not for inefficiency and mishandling, will I have a chance for a full refund? If not, then I have to suffer all that loss plus i will have to incur future losses? If so, it seems the justice system is more favorable to these predatory businesses, giving their customers what they did not pay for?

I don't think you will be granted a refund for the tee-shirts that were printed properly and approved by you, based on what you have posted here. The shirts that were printed properly would not be considered a loss.

And it sounds as if the company has tried to satisfy you by re-printing the rejected tee-shirts.

That said, I don't know what exactly the problem was with the tee-shirts you rejected and I don't know if you might be expecting more from the printing company than is reasonable. I don't know if the company can realistically be looked at as a "predatory" business without knowing the business or its history.

For a review of the specifics, and to better gauge whether you have a shot at a full refund if you were to sue the company, you can meet with an attorney in your area. The attorney can research the company and its reputation with the consuming public, and the attorney can read over the contract in its entirety, and the attorney can then give you a clearer idea if the problems you have experienced with the tee-shirts could lead to a successful legal action resulting in a full refund.

Good luck.

 

[roomie]

I don't think you will be granted a refund for the tee-shirts that were printed properly and approved by you, based on what you have posted here. The shirts that were printed properly would not be considered a loss.

And it sounds as if the company has tried to satisfy you by re-printing the rejected tee-shirts.

That said, I don't know what exactly the problem was with the tee-shirts you rejected and I don't know if you might be expecting more from the printing company than is reasonable. I don't know if the company can realistically be looked at as a "predatory" business without knowing the business or its history.

For a review of the specifics, and to better gauge whether you have a shot at a full refund if you were to sue the company, you can meet with an attorney in your area. The attorney can research the company and its reputation with the consuming public, and the attorney can read over the contract in its entirety, and the attorney can then give you a clearer idea if the problems you have experienced with the tee-shirts could lead to a successful legal action resulting in a full refund.

Good luck.

May i send you an illustration to better explain? No, there's no attempt to reprint. They gave me an ultimatum that if I don't pay a certain amount, they won't reprint.

 

[quincy]

May i send you an illustration to better explain? No, there's no attempt to reprint. They gave me an ultimatum that if I don't pay a certain amount, they won't reprint.

Although an illustration could better explain what you are talking about with the tee-shirts, the FreeAdvice forum administrators are not fond of us doing personal reviews. Sorry.

I am also sorry I misunderstood the company's stance on reprinting the tee-shirts that were rejected. That certainly makes the partial refund you are requesting a reasonable one.

It is a tough situation you are in, though, and I can understand your frustration. It is just not compensable frustration. I think the partial refund is about as good as you are going to get (along with the valuable lesson to never use that printing company again ). Perhaps you can increase the price of your tee-shirts to recoup some of your anticipated lost profit.

Good luck with whatever it is you decide to do, roomie.

 

[roomie]

Although an illustration could better explain what you are talking about with the tee-shirts, the FreeAdvice forum administrators are not fond of us doing personal reviews. Sorry.

I am also sorry I misunderstood the company's stance on reprinting the tee-shirts that were rejected. That certainly makes the partial refund you are requesting a reasonable one.

It is a tough situation you are in, though, and I can understand your frustration. It is just not compensable frustration. I think the partial refund is about as good as you are going to get (along with the valuable lesson to never use that printing company again ). Perhaps you can increase the price of your tee-shirts to recoup some of your anticipated lost profit.

Good luck with whatever it is you decide to do, roomie.

Thank you so much, Quincy!

 

[quincy]

You're welcome, roomie. Good luck!

 

[roomie]

UPDATE. Thanks in advance.

Printer and I agreed on a refund for the portion not printed and also shipment of goods that were produced. I have the goods now but no refund as of yet and it's been 2 weeks. They've been ignoring my emails/calls. Can i claim for more than the amount of the refund when i take them to small claims? Very annoyed...i feel i just need this justified somehow. These guys are just downright nasty, no wonder they have bad reviews on yelp.

 

[quincy]

UPDATE. Thanks in advance.

Printer and I agreed on a refund for the portion not printed and also shipment of goods that were produced. I have the goods now but no refund as of yet and it's been 2 weeks. They've been ignoring my emails/calls. Can i claim for more than the amount of the refund when i take them to small claims? Very annoyed...i feel i just need this justified somehow. These guys are just downright nasty, no wonder they have bad reviews on yelp.

I am glad you and the printer were able to agree on a refund and that you received the tee-shirts that were printed properly. Before filing a small claims action to get the refund that was agreed to, however, you might want to consider having an attorney send the printing company a letter advising them that a suit will be filed if the refund is not forthcoming. This could work to get the refund without the need for court.

But, if you need to file, here are two links you might find helpful, one from New York's Public Interest Research Group on small claims court actions, and one from TenantNet (which has more information than the NYPIRG site and which is not information for landlord/tenant issues only):

http://www.nypirg.org/consumer/smallclaims/fivesteps.html#show

http://www.tenant.net/Court/Howcourt/sclaim.html

Good luck once again, roomie.

 

[roomie]

I am glad you and the printer were able to agree on a refund and that you received the tee-shirts that were printed properly. Before filing a small claims action to get the refund that was agreed to, however, you might want to consider having an attorney send the printing company a letter advising them that a suit will be filed if the refund is not forthcoming. This could work to get the refund without the need for court.

But, if you need to file, here are two links you might find helpful, one from New York's Public Interest Research Group on small claims court actions, and one from TenantNet (which has more information than the NYPIRG site and which is not information for landlord/tenant issues only):

http://www.nypirg.org/consumer/smallclaims/fivesteps.html#show

http://www.tenant.net/Court/Howcourt/sclaim.html

Good luck once again, roomie.

Thanks for your reply, Quincy. Going to a lawyer is definitely my first choice, but I've pretty much exhausted all my efforts in finding a lawyer to help me actually with the initial amount of $2000, which is now down to less than $1000 since I already have the partial goods. Do you think that maybe now that it's a refund situation, i can get a lawyer? And fee won't be more than the actual cost of refund?

 

[quincy]

Thanks for your reply, Quincy. Going to a lawyer is definitely my first choice, but I've pretty much exhausted all my efforts in finding a lawyer to help me actually with the initial amount of $2000, which is now down to less than $1000 since I already have the partial goods. Do you think that maybe now that it's a refund situation, i can get a lawyer? And fee won't be more than the actual cost of refund?

You could call some general practice attorneys in your area to see how much they would charge for simply drafting and sending a letter to the printing company. I wouldn't think it would be much but I don't really know. Perhaps a legal aid clinic could help with a letter for free or for a lower cost than you might find otherwise.

And I am not sure that you would need an attorney for your small claims suit (although, in New York, you could have an attorney represent you if you wanted one). Judges in small claims are used to seeing pro se litigants and are pretty tolerant when court rules are fumbled a bit. The whole atmosphere is far more relaxed.

 

[roomie]

You could call some general practice attorneys in your area to see how much they would charge for simply drafting and sending a letter to the printing company. I wouldn't think it would be much but I don't really know. Perhaps a legal aid clinic could help with a letter for free or for a lower cost than you might find otherwise.

And I am not sure that you would need an attorney for your small claims suit (although, in New York, you could have an attorney represent you if you wanted one). Judges in small claims are used to seeing pro se litigants and are pretty tolerant when court rules are fumbled a bit. The whole atmosphere is far more relaxed.

Thanks sooo much Quincy!!!

 

[quincy]

You're welcome, roomie. Thank you for the thanks.