Signed up for a study abroad course. Cannot go, they demand payment in full

[Irritated Rhino]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

My son signed up for a study abroad course to Greece. Unfortunately he no longer can afford to go.

The program wants him to pay in full to cancel. This is in the neighborhood of $10,000 and while we would expect that he would lose the $300 deposit, charging 10,000 is predatory. Forcing a kid to take on 10k in student debt is astonishing and I believe usury. There is a line in the T&C that says you can't cancel after adeadline, but it simply cannot be enforceable to do this. What recourse do we have? The T&C is located at the bottom of this page: https://r.ieo.ucla.edu/travelStudy/Register/travelregister.cfm

Many thanks in advance!

 

[Zigner]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

My son signed up for a study abroad course to Greece. Unfortunately he no longer can afford to go.

The program wants him to pay in full to cancel. This is in the neighborhood of $10,000 and while we would expect that he would lose the $300 deposit, charging 10,000 is predatory. Forcing a kid to take on 10k in student debt is astonishing and I believe usury. There is a line in the T&C that says you can't cancel after adeadline, but it simply cannot be enforceable to do this. What recourse do we have? The T&C is located at the bottom of this page: https://r.ieo.ucla.edu/travelStudy/Register/travelregister.cfm

Many thanks in advance!

Apparently, he was fine with that condition when he signed the agreement. This is not usury, nor is it predatory.

 

[Irritated Rhino]

Thanks, but that is not helping me out. At the time it was not an issue.

 

[Zigner]

Thanks, but that is not helping me out. At the time it was not an issue.

By "helping you out", do you mean "giving your son a way to get out of something that he agreed to?" Because, if that's what you mean, then nobody here will be able to help you out.

 

[TheGeekess]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

My son signed up for a study abroad course to Greece. Unfortunately he no longer can afford to go.

The program wants him to pay in full to cancel. This is in the neighborhood of $10,000 and while we would expect that he would lose the $300 deposit, charging 10,000 is predatory. Forcing a kid to take on 10k in student debt is astonishing and I believe usury. There is a line in the T&C that says you can't cancel after adeadline, but it simply cannot be enforceable to do this. What recourse do we have? The T&C is located at the bottom of this page: https://r.ieo.ucla.edu/travelStudy/Register/travelregister.cfm

Many thanks in advance!

Maybe Junior should talk to an adviser in the program. There may be other students waiting for a spot.

 

[LdiJ]

Apparently, he was fine with that condition when he signed the agreement. This is not usury, nor is it predatory.

Really?...you do not know that...nor does the OP know that it is either. Someone familiar with those kinds of programs might agree that the 300.00 deposit "may" not be enough to cover the unrecoverable costs that the agency might have spent, DEPENDING on where in the process things stand, but at the same time, even if he is supposed to leave tomorrow, its not very likely that the unrecoverable costs are 10k either.

Its pretty bold to state, with the little information available here, that its neither usury nor predatory...or even an enforceable contract. Valid contracts required "consideration". I do not know if this contract is enforceable or not. You do not know either.

The only responsible thing to do is to advise the OP to have serious discussions with the school, the agency, and possibly with an attorney.

 

[Zigner]

Really?...you do not know that...nor does the OP know that it is either. Someone familiar with those kinds of programs might agree that the 300.00 deposit "may" not be enough to cover the unrecoverable costs that the agency might have spent, DEPENDING on where in the process things stand, but at the same time, even if he is supposed to leave tomorrow, its not very likely that the unrecoverable costs are 10k either.

Its pretty bold to state, with the little information available here, that its neither usury nor predatory...or even an enforceable contract. Valid contracts required "consideration". I do not know if this contract is enforceable or not. You do not know either.

The only responsible thing to do is to advise the OP to have serious discussions with the school, the agency, and possibly with an attorney.

Please research the following: "liquidated damages," "non-refundable," and "contract."

 

[justalayman]

Valid contracts required "consideration". .

back way up. Nowhere is it even suggested there was no consideration. In fact, it is evident there was:

$10,000 from the kid is consideration on his part and whatever the other party was providing (likely provisions for travel and room and board) for consideration on their part.

usury: lending money at unreasonable rates of interest. Obviously not applicable here

predatory; predatory what? There is no lending so it obviously is not predatory lending. Predatory practices? How so? Did they deceive him into signing a contract that was too good to be true and then demanded payment when the kid balked after realizing what it was actually for? I'm not seeing anything that comes close to predatory practices.

There is a line in the T&C that says you can't cancel after adeadline

it even sounds like there was the means to cancel the contract after signing it, within reason.


as far as damages: at the time of the deadline they have likely contracted for travel accommodations, room, board, or anything else provided the student under the contract. They are committed to paying whether the kid goes or not so of course their damages are going to reflect those commitments and not simply out of pocket expenses to date.

and of course that doesn't even consider the possibility there is a liquidated damages clause in the contract that would allow the demand for full payment after the date of the deadline.

 

[LdiJ]

back way up. Nowhere is it even suggested there was no consideration. In fact, it is evident there was:

$10,000 from the kid is consideration on his part and whatever the other party was providing (likely provisions for travel and room and board) for consideration on their part.

usury: lending money at unreasonable rates of interest. Obviously not applicable here

predatory; predatory what? There is no lending so it obviously is not predatory lending. Predatory practices? How so? Did they deceive him into signing a contract that was too good to be true and then demanded payment when the kid balked after realizing what it was actually for? I'm not seeing anything that comes close to predatory practices.


it even sounds like there was the means to cancel the contract after signing it, within reason.


as far as damages: at the time of the deadline they have likely contracted for travel accommodations, room, board, or anything else provided the student under the contract. They are committed to paying whether the kid goes or not so of course their damages are going to reflect those commitments and not simply out of pocket expenses to date.

and of course that doesn't even consider the possibility there is a liquidated damages clause in the contract that would allow the demand for full payment after the date of the deadline.

I didn't realize that you have read the specific contract in question.

To repeat:

The only responsible thing to do is to advise the OP to have serious discussions with the school, the agency, and possibly with an attorney.

 

[justalayman]

I didn't realize that you have read the specific contract in question.

To repeat:

The only responsible thing to do is to advise the OP to have serious discussions with the school, the agency, and possibly with an attorney.

For Petes sake. There is consideration. It is obvious. I don't even have to read the contract to know that.

Kid pays school; school provides services listed in contract. That is all the consideration required to make it valid (at least regarding consideration). Now if you want to suggest the kid was paying $10k and getting absolutely nothing in return, well, you are simply wrong.

 

[eerelations]

The contract is valid. Period.

 

[xylene]

Best approach before involving a lawyer:

No one has mentioned talking to the university ombudsman to see if a non adversarial resolution could be arrived at...

 

[LdiJ]

The contract is valid. Period.

No one can say with certainty that a contract is valid unless they have read it.

 

[eerelations]

No one can say with certainty that a contract is valid unless they have read it.

Then how can you say it's not valid?

I say it's valid because the description the OP gave of it makes it sound very very typical of a very very normal (and therefore very very valid) contract. It had a date by which the OP's son could exit the contract without penalty, OP's son missed the date, now the educational institution wants their money, in accordance with the contract. Nothing strange about any of this, nothing that would indicate that this is somehow an invalid contract.

(And please don't lecture me about contracts, I write contracts, valid contracts that hold up in court. Unless you can prove you have more years' experience writing a wider variety of contracts than I do, I am really not interested in your opinions on contracts.)

 

[LdiJ]

Then how can you say it's not valid?

I say it's valid because the description the OP gave of it makes it sound very very typical of a very very normal (and therefore very very valid) contract. It had a date by which the OP's son could exit the contract without penalty, OP's son missed the date, now the educational institution wants their money, in accordance with the contract. Nothing strange about any of this, nothing that would indicate that this is somehow an invalid contract.

(And please don't lecture me about contracts, I write contracts, valid contracts that hold up in court. Unless you can prove you have more years' experience writing a wider variety of contracts than I do, I am really not interested in your opinions on contracts.)

I did not say that it wasn't valid. I said that I had questions regarding its validity and that the OP should consult with the school, the agency and perhaps an attorney. Its quite normal to have a date by which someone has to cancel or lose their deposit. Its less normal that the full cost has to be borne whether the other side has to fully fulfill their end of the contract or not. That part may be valid, or may not be valid. We cannot say either way.

Its possible that it could be valid depending on what that 10k was to cover. Its also possible that its not valid, again depending on what that 10k was to cover. However if the agency actually had to put out 10k worth of expenses then I would have expected them to require a 10k deposit. I am also skeptical that the agency would demonstrate 10k worth of damages unless the cancellation was virtually on the eve of departure, and even then, it seems unlikely.