Chemical trespass, Being Bullied by neighboring farm

[RRevak]

I see this situation for exactly what it is and there is nothing we, or the Dept of Ag, can say that will make you happy. There is no way you're going to make their operation go away no matter how many times you stomp your foot, cry poison, report them, freak out etc. You can move or deal. Period. You clearly don't understand farming and clearly don't understand that you have no rights to property that isn't yours. You want them to stay out of your business yet you seem compelled to be involved with theirs which is complete hypocrisy. You want them to do what YOU say yet you insist on sticking your nose into THEIR business. You know the old saying, you bait the hook you might get a fish. Well, you certainly baited the hook and now you're ending up with a fish you don't want. Oh well, next time maybe you should stick to your own "farm" and let others stick to theirs.

 

[Ladyback1]

Gonna go out on a limb here, and predict:

OP will come back and tell us how the Dept of AG found DDT or something along those lines, and the "offending" farm is receiving a huge fee/fine/penalty.

In our house, we always say "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it!"

If the offending farm has been violating so many laws, and is poisoning lakes? The Dept of AG could very well force everyone in a specific radius of the farm to leave, and not come back until there is a environmental clean-up. Going to be hard to view an evening sunset when you are living in your local Motel 6!

 

[quincy]

I am not sure why some are discounting the (possibly legitimate) concerns of Lilfarm. ???

I have lived and worked in big cities, and I have lived in suburban subdivisions, and I currently live on a farm that is surrounded by other farms and farmland. I breathed in car and bus and truck exhaust in the cities, and I was aware of the chemical spraying of lawns in the subdivisions, and I watch the crop dusters fly around my house now. There have been health hazards in each area I have resided - and I think it is smart to be aware of them, especially if you are raising a family.

The air quality of big cities is being addressed in part by the government requiring emission testing for automobiles (which has cut down on smog) and there have been restrictions placed on the chemicals sprayed by lawn care companies (after testing showed toxic run-offs were affecting water supplies and plant life), and there are strict regulations on air and land pesticide applications (to prevent adverse health effects in humans and animals). I don't think the public ignores it when there are accidental oil spills in lakes and oceans, or when there is a purposeful dumping of hazardous chemicals into landfills and streams. They should not ignore air quality, either.

Here is a link to the toxicity of pesticides (again from the same Florida source as the other links): http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/document_pi008

I think everyone purchases a home and property (or rents an apartment) hoping that what they first found desirable about a residence will remain as is. It is perhaps naive of anyone to believe that things will stay the same but, if someone likes where they live, I think it is what everyone secretly hopes.

The city may decline around you, obnoxious neighbors may move in next door, and vacant property may be developed in ways you never envisioned. These changes you cannot (always or even usually) control. You can, however, work to protect the health of yourself and your family by ensuring as much as you can that the air you breathe is clean, the water you drink and swim in is clean, and the food you consume is safe from harmful additives and grown in a way that does not affect the health of the growers or the consumers.

The field of environmental law did not develop because there were never any problems with the pollution of the air, water, or earth. Companies (including farms) have been known to take "short-cuts" in the past that have jeopardized the health of the environment and the people, all for a better financial bottom line.

I guess what I am saying is that it does not HURT for Lilfarm to have questionable pesticide applications investigated, even when there is nothing that can be done to preserve a view of sunsets.

Edit to add an IMPORTANT note: Even though asking the department of agriculture to investigate the neighbor's use and application of pesticides is something that I think was smart, Lilfarm SHOULD NOT PUBLICLY accuse the neighbor of poisoning his workers or using pesticides on his farm in an illegal way. Until there is PROOF that there are illegal acts being committed by the neighbor, to accuse the neighbor of illegal acts could lead to a defamation claim filed by the neighbor against Lilfarm that Lilfarm could easily lose. I should have mentioned this in my first post and failed to.

 

[Lilfarm]

I am not sure why some are discounting the (possibly legitimate) concerns of Lilfarm. ???



Edit to add an IMPORTANT note: Even though asking the department of agriculture to investigate the neighbor's use and application of pesticides is something that I think was smart, Lilfarm SHOULD NOT PUBLICLY accuse the neighbor of poisoning his workers or using pesticides on his farm in an illegal way. Until there is PROOF that there are illegal acts being committed by the neighbor, to accuse the neighbor of illegal acts could lead to a defamation claim filed by the neighbor against Lilfarm that Lilfarm could easily lose. I should have mentioned this in my first post and failed to.

Thank you again Quincy. You speak more eloquently than I do. Yes, you're right, I shouldn't have said anything. (This isn't the whole story by a long shot. I have left most out for that reason.) I am just extremely disappointed this is happening. I understand change too much. Urban sprawl is one, of many, reasons we moved out here.
I shouldn't be bullied out of my home, but if I could move today, I would.

I feel like some people here have been bamboozled by Monsonto and other offensive companies. "JUST PUT SOME ROUND-UP ON IT! THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH IT!" They probably don't believe climate change is happening either. I dare everyone here, to do a urine test, to test for pesticides. I bet you will be surprised.

How does glyphosate get into my drinking water?
The major source of glyphosate in drinking water is runoff from herbicide use.

 

[Ladyback1]

I am not sure why some are discounting the (possibly legitimate) concerns of Lilfarm. ???

I have lived and worked in big cities, and I have lived in suburban subdivisions, and I currently live on a farm that is surrounded by other farms and farmland. I breathed in car and bus and truck exhaust in the cities, and I was aware of the chemical spraying of lawns in the subdivisions, and I watch the crop dusters fly around my house now. There have been health hazards in each area I have resided - and I think it is smart to be aware of them, especially if you are raising a family.

The air quality of big cities is being addressed in part by the government requiring emission testing for automobiles (which has cut down on smog) and there have been restrictions placed on the chemicals sprayed by lawn care companies (after testing showed toxic run-offs were affecting water supplies and plant life), and there are strict regulations on air and land pesticide applications (to prevent adverse health effects in humans and animals). I don't think the public ignores it when there are accidental oil spills in lakes and oceans, or when there is a purposeful dumping of hazardous chemicals into landfills and streams. They should not ignore air quality, either.

Here is a link to the toxicity of pesticides (again from the same Florida source as the other links): http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/document_pi008

I think everyone purchases a home and property (or rents an apartment) hoping that what they first found desirable about a residence will remain as is. It is perhaps naive of anyone to believe that things will stay the same but, if someone likes where they live, I think it is what everyone secretly hopes.

The city may decline around you, obnoxious neighbors may move in next door, and vacant property may be developed in ways you never envisioned. These changes you cannot (always or even usually) control. You can, however, work to protect the health of yourself and your family by ensuring as much as you can that the air you breathe is clean, the water you drink and swim in is clean, and the food you consume is safe from harmful additives and grown in a way that does not affect the health of the growers or the consumers.

The field of environmental law did not develop because there were never any problems with the pollution of the air, water, or earth. Companies (including farms) have been known to take "short-cuts" in the past that have jeopardized the health of the environment and the people, all for a better financial bottom line.

I guess what I am saying is that it does not HURT for Lilfarm to have questionable pesticide applications investigated, even when there is nothing that can be done to preserve a view of sunsets.

Edit to add an IMPORTANT note: Even though asking the department of agriculture to investigate the neighbor's use and application of pesticides is something that I think was smart, Lilfarm SHOULD NOT PUBLICLY accuse the neighbor of poisoning his workers or using pesticides on his farm in an illegal way. Until there is PROOF that there are illegal acts being committed by the neighbor, to accuse the neighbor of illegal acts could lead to a defamation claim filed by the neighbor against Lilfarm that Lilfarm could easily lose. I should have mentioned this in my first post and failed to.

I'm not discounting the effects of pesticide/insecticides. I don't discount how chemicals can leech in to soil and water. (Good Grief! I live about 4-5 miles from an EPA Superfund site (Asarco). Our state was also home to ASBESTOS company, WR Grace Company. WR Grace LIED for many years about the dangers of asbestos--and people DIED and are still dying regularly because of WR Grace lying and polluting Libby, MT! MT has several old copper and gold mines that have "tailings ponds"---you want to discuss environmental impact??)

The OP has offered no evidence, even upon direct questioning, of WHY he/she feels the chemicals are effecting his/her health. And has provided no evidence of those chemicals impacting the local environment (ie "poisoning two lakes"). The OP has made a LOT of claims and disparaging remarks about the neighbor--and that's all that has been said.
It appears that the OP is more angry because the neighbor put in a green house, and is planning to build a fence to block OP's view!
That's where my disbelief and questioning comes from. Not because I don't understand how chemicals can impact the environment.

 

[quincy]

I'm not discounting the effects of pesticide/insecticides. I don't discount how chemicals can leech in to soil and water. (Good Grief! I live about 4-5 miles from an EPA Superfund site (Asarco). Our state was also home to ASBESTOS company, WR Grace Company. WR Grace LIED for many years about the dangers of asbestos--and people DIED and are still dying regularly because of WR Grace lying and polluting Libby, MT! MT has several old copper and gold mines that have "tailings ponds"---you want to discuss environmental impact??)

The OP has offered no evidence, even upon direct questioning, of WHY he/she feels the chemicals are effecting his/her health. And has provided no evidence of those chemicals impacting the local environment (ie "poisoning two lakes"). The OP has made a LOT of claims and disparaging remarks about the neighbor--and that's all that has been said.
It appears that the OP is more angry because the neighbor put in a green house, and is planning to build a fence to block OP's view!
That's where my disbelief and questioning comes from. Not because I don't understand how chemicals can impact the environment.

Fair enough. I think Lilfarm's mention of sunsets should have been left out of the posts and I think Lilfarm needs to temper his/her anger and refrain from making unfounded complaints about the neighbor.

That said, Lilfarm contacted the department of agriculture for testing and I think that was smart. The test results should provide evidence of the presence of poison from the pesticides in the soil or in the water or in the air (although the test results will probably not be available for quite awhile). A person may not suffer any immediate or notable health complaints from inhaled or consumed poisons even when health is being compromised, although medical tests would be additional evidence.

My posts were meant to address the fact that Lilfarm said the neighbor's pesticides adhered to his/her body and clothing and made its way into Lilfarm's house. This is where a legal action could potentially be something to consider (depending, of course, on test results). If Lilfarm came to the forum complaining about roosters crowing or the smell of cow manure or just a proposed fence blocking the view of a sunset, my comments would have been different (or I would not have commented at all ).

But a concern over how pesticides are being applied by the neighbor appears to me to be a legitimate concern.

 

[RRevak]

Thank you again Quincy. You speak more eloquently than I do. Yes, you're right, I shouldn't have said anything. (This isn't the whole story by a long shot. I have left most out for that reason.) I am just extremely disappointed this is happening. I understand change too much. Urban sprawl is one, of many, reasons we moved out here.
I shouldn't be bullied out of my home, but if I could move today, I would.

I feel like some people here have been bamboozled by Monsonto and other offensive companies. "JUST PUT SOME ROUND-UP ON IT! THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH IT!" They probably don't believe climate change is happening either. I dare everyone here, to do a urine test, to test for pesticides. I bet you will be surprised.

How does glyphosate get into my drinking water?
The major source of glyphosate in drinking water is runoff from herbicide use.

I am not in any way "bamboozled" by *Monsanto". I am, in fact, very VERY anti Monsanto. I tend to buy non-gmo and strictly organic foods. I only use natural herbicides and pesticides in my garden. I use no chemical cleaning fluids in my home and for petes sake I cloth diaper by babies and use family cloth for the rest of us. I buy second hand clothing so as to not support child and poor labor laws. I am aware. Trust me, i'm about as "crunchy" as they come. BUT....

I ALSO understand that not everyone understands agriculture. I understand not everyone knows what is considered dangerous as far as agriculture is concerned. You started out complaining they built a large greenhouse in an area you wanted to use as a visually pleasing segment for yourself. You got upset that they wanted to build a fence on THEIR property. You complained about poison AFTER these things happened. Call me skeptical but to me it sounds like this is less about "poison" and more about you being angry that you no longer have free views of someone elses land.


As to the bolded: Yes i'm sure pretty much ANYONE will have SOME residual pesticides due to the food they consume. Do you REALLY think food can be grown completely without them? Even "organic" farms use "pesticides". They're just not the same as the ones traditional farms use. But that doesn't mean they aren't still pesticides. *sigh*