Teen Falsely Accused of School Property Damage

[Viridienne]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas

My son is a high school student in Lewisville, Texas and the bus driver has accused my son of damaging a heater on the bus.

Here is the background information, as I understand it:

The bus is not large enough for the students it transports, and so one student normally has to sit on the heater behind the rear seat of the bus. All the actual seats are occupied, and if they try to squeeze an extra student onto a regular seat, that student ends up blocking the aisle and/or falling off the edge of the seat. Apparently, there are 5-6 boys who are individually accustomed to sitting on the heater when the bus is full. My son is one of those boys.

Today, when he was getting off the bus, my son said that the bus driver pointed out that the heater was dented in. My son is not heavy at all. He said that the heater looked like someone had smashed it with something hard, like a brick.

He denies doing any damage to it. Although it is common knowledge that my son is not the only student who ever sits on the heater, and no one saw him actually damage it, they are holding him responsible for it, supposedly because they don't know the names of the other students who normally sit there to question them. The police have not been called at this point.

Can the school really force him to pay for the damages? All they have against him is that he was sitting there today and they noticed the damage today. Can I bring up the fact that they are endangering the students' lives by not having appropriate seating for all of them? What should be our next move?

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas

My son is a high school student in Lewisville, Texas and the bus driver has accused my son of damaging a heater on the bus.

Here is the background information, as I understand it:

The bus is not large enough for the students it transports, and so one student normally has to sit on the heater behind the rear seat of the bus. All the actual seats are occupied, and if they try to squeeze an extra student onto a regular seat, that student ends up blocking the aisle and/or falling off the edge of the seat. Apparently, there are 5-6 boys who are individually accustomed to sitting on the heater when the bus is full. My son is one of those boys.

Today, when he was getting off the bus, my son said that the bus driver pointed out that the heater was dented in. My son is not heavy at all. He said that the heater looked like someone had smashed it with something hard, like a brick.

He denies doing any damage to it. Although it is common knowledge that my son is not the only student who ever sits on the heater, and no one saw him actually damage it, they are holding him responsible for it, supposedly because they don't know the names of the other students who normally sit there to question them. The police have not been called at this point.

Can the school really force him to pay for the damages? All they have against him is that he was sitting there today and they noticed the damage today. Can I bring up the fact that they are endangering the students' lives by not having appropriate seating for all of them? What should be our next move?

Many school buses now have video cameras that record the interior of the bus during transport of students. Does your son's bus have video cameras?

 

[Viridienne]

Many school buses now have video cameras that record the interior of the bus during transport of students. Does your son's bus have video cameras?

My son said that the bus driver told him the camera cannot "see" that spot on the bus.

 

[Zigner]

First, I'd tell them "no".
Second, I'd ask why they are allowing/forcing students to sit on a part of the bus that is not designed for passengers.
Third, I'd ask them for the address of the place that you will be submitting any claims when (not if) your child gets injured due to their negligence in forcing your child to sit on the heater.

 

[xylene]

Why would the police be called? Dear god your state is a heck hole.

Refuse to pay even 1 cent.

 

[Viridienne]

Why would the police be called? Dear god your state is a heck hole.

Refuse to pay even 1 cent.

I just mentioned that the police had not been called, since I have heard of the police being called in some school vandalism cases. I do agree that my state is a nightmare sometimes. That's why I'm moving away this summer. The teen in question lives with his dad, though, although he's welcome to come join me when I move. I'm asking the questions because my son messaged me from school, panicked.

 

[tranquility]

While I'm sure the sole reason for the same group of 5-6 boys occasionally sit on the heater is because the bus is filled in order to protect the safety and comfort of the other passengers and not to be one of the cool kids who sits where they want when they want, there is going to be more evidence here.

I don't know of Lewisville's theory of the duties of bus drivers. Having been a high school coach for many years with many trips on said buses; here the drivers keep a daily log of events. They count the number students, on and off; they walk the inside of the bus to check for lost belongings and damage after the students leave; they check the bus inside and out at the beginning of the day for damages and safety operations, etc. Go to a bus yard in the morning and you'll find the drivers walking around their bus checking to make sure all the lighting works. All this is noted in the log.

I know that some may not do this sometimes and all may not do this in different districts. But, there is a log of some record kept on the bus attributes and events of the trip. It is likely the approximate time of the heater's damage is known in a way admissible in court.

Before taking the road of getting all huffy and puffy to defend the golden child, I'd follow up with reasoned questions and determine why they believe your son did the act. It is going to be more than the fact he is the only one they know the name of who may sometimes sit on the heater. Look at a picture of the damage as well.

As to any longer term issues on crowding and potential safety violations, knock yourself out. AFTER this destruction of school property is dealt with appropriately.

 

[xylene]

As to any longer term issues on crowding and potential safety violations, knock yourself out. AFTER this destruction of school property is dealt with appropriately.

This is reversing cause and effect.

No ones buttocks would have dented anything if they were seated in seats.

 

[Zigner]

As to any longer term issues on crowding and potential safety violations, knock yourself out. AFTER this destruction of school property is dealt with appropriately.

Frankly, this sounds an awful lot like unclean hands on the part of the bus driver and/or the district. The bus driver and/or the district would have to admit to violating state law and putting students in harms way on a fairly regular basis. Do they really want to do that?

 

[Viridienne]

While I'm sure the sole reason for the same group of 5-6 boys occasionally sit on the heater is because the bus is filled in order to protect the safety and comfort of the other passengers and not to be one of the cool kids who sits where they want when they want, there is going to be more evidence here.

I don't know of Lewisville's theory of the duties of bus drivers. Having been a high school coach for many years with many trips on said buses; here the drivers keep a daily log of events. They count the number students, on and off; they walk the inside of the bus to check for lost belongings and damage after the students leave; they check the bus inside and out at the beginning of the day for damages and safety operations, etc. Go to a bus yard in the morning and you'll find the drivers walking around their bus checking to make sure all the lighting works. All this is noted in the log.

I know that some may not do this sometimes and all may not do this in different districts. But, there is a log of some record kept on the bus attributes and events of the trip. It is likely the approximate time of the heater's damage is known in a way admissible in court.

Before taking the road of getting all huffy and puffy to defend the golden child, I'd follow up with reasoned questions and determine why they believe your son did the act. It is going to be more than the fact he is the only one they know the name of who may sometimes sit on the heater. Look at a picture of the damage as well.

As to any longer term issues on crowding and potential safety violations, knock yourself out. AFTER this destruction of school property is dealt with appropriately.

Thank you for your reply. I did ask him several times if there was ANY other seat available on the bus, even if it meant sitting next to someone you didn't like or whatever. He replied that there was not, and that he couldn't just stand in the back, because that was not allowed. I didn't go into this angry at the school and assuming he was innocent. I just asked him every question about the situation that I could think of.

 

[tranquility]

-We don't know if sitting on the heater caused the damage. (The allegation is it was hit by something like a brick.)
-We don't know of the driver/district allowed or encouraged sitting on the heater.
-One does not have "unclean hands" for crimes and intentional torts. If the school is alleging negligence, then it is a possible defense.
-We do know that it would be very unusual for a rotating group of people who sat on an object over what seems some time suddenly have one of that group sit on the object as normal and the object suddenly breaks. It could be true. It is one reason why the picture of the damage may be relevant.

 

[Zigner]

-We don't know of the driver/district allowed or encouraged sitting on the heater.

If it happened, he allowed it. To say otherwise is tantamount to saying that the bus driver was negligent in supervising the students.

-One does not have "unclean hands" for crimes and intentional torts. If the school is alleging negligence, then it is a possible defense.

Conceptually the matter is very similar. "Hey, he illegally damaged my heater when I illegally allowed him to sit on it".

-We do know that it would be very unusual for a rotating group of people who sat on an object over what seems some time suddenly have one of that group sit on the object as normal and the object suddenly breaks. It could be true. It is one reason why the picture of the damage may be relevant.

Ok.

 

[tranquility]

If it happened, he allowed it. To say otherwise is tantamount to saying that the bus driver was negligent in supervising the students.

I disagree. But, let's pretend it was. So? What are the damages for this negligence?

Conceptually the matter is very similar. "Hey, he illegally damaged my heater when I illegally allowed him to sit on it".

Yet, we don't have that concept at law. "If it's so important to you than go ahead and hit me." is not consent for a punch in the nose. "Unclean hands" is an equitable defense. If the kid damaged the heater by siting on it (Something he has not admitted or claimed as yet.), it would apply. (If it could be proven is another issue.)

 

[Zigner]

I disagree. But, let's pretend it was. So? What are the damages for this negligence?
Yet, we don't have that concept at law. "If it's so important to you than go ahead and hit me." is not consent for a punch in the nose. "Unclean hands" is an equitable defense. If the kid damaged the heater by siting on it (Something he has not admitted or claimed as yet.), it would apply. (If it could be proven is another issue.)

I don't feel the district will push this issue knowing the can of worms they are opening. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary

 

[tranquility]

I don't feel the district will push this issue knowing the can of worms they are opening. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary

The order I suggest the OP prioritize issues gets down to the risk/reward to each party. I think the "can of worms" is a lot smaller than imagined and far more divided as to who would suffer on the part of the district. On the part of the student? A criminal arrest, perhaps a suspension or expulsion from school and probably some limitation or elimination from bus usage. While I suppose there is some small risk to the district if we imagine any of a number of things, the risk to the student is immediate and high.

We don't know what happened. We don't know any facts beyond a superficial expression from a 2nd party. Outraged parents rolling into discussions related to things that might be considered a crime or other offense where money and rights to attend this school are in jeopardy are going to have a bad day; no matter the mileage. (Google: gonna have a bad day meme ) As I have mentioned, I suspect I will someday deal in education law. (Probably not in this type of case, but I'm good at understanding administrative law as well, so, who knows?) I fundamentally understand that just because the driver/school/district claims something does not make it true. Really. I think I have been clear about my theory about how the government works. Including schools.

Yet, we have district property being damaged in a way that seems intentional. We have a person that, for some reason, is a suspect. The only defense we have is factual and seems to depend the ONLY reason the person is suspected is that the bus driver knows his name for one of the guys that has sit on the heater at some time in the past. I mean really, is that why you think the district is accusing the OP's son? I posit it is not.

Now, let's look at the "defense" he "had" to sit on the heater or was encouraged by the bus driver. I believe that is untrue as a general matter. (With no knowledge of this one.) The bus driver has many jobs to do, focusing on the safety of the passengers. But, they have to get somewhere at sometime too--as that can affect the safety of the passengers and the purpose of using the bus in the first place. If a person slides to the other side of the aisle putting 3 on one side, should he pull the bus over and correct the situation? What if the bus is certified for three people on each bench? (Even if because of extra McDonald's, one is not comfortably seated on the bench.) That the OP's son determined he would be blocking the aisle or could not properly sit on a bench if he had to have his self touch others, does not make the bus too crowded.

That there is a claim the driver "allowed" something negligent if one sat on a place that was not a front facing unseatbelted bench seat, is an argument only one who has never been on a crowded school bus can make. Negligence gets to the damage that happens because of a breach of duty. If this issue is simply an overloaded sit, things would change things markedly.

I would go on, but suspect the disagreement relates to personal experience over the law and logical analysis. The OP's goal is to find out more facts. Depending solely upon her son's narrative should not be the sole factor that determines the result. (Accepting that even if the narrative is true is a bit problematical as to the result.)

I suggest in the highest terms I know, the OP should be nice. She should politely ask the facts. She should not go in like she has the highest ace in her pocket. She should go in understanding that her son has great risk and, at best, she might have a defense to some things and might be able to cause problems. I don't really think either (Absent simple damage by sitting on the heater.), but we can dream.