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17, PA, questionable permission to move out

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TamraM

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Pennsylvania

Hello. I am 17 years old, and have been dealing with some... major family issues, to say the least. I turn 18 on the first of November, and was wondering about the 'runaway' laws in my state. I'll give a little more information, in the hopes of recieving some more accurate advice and information.

I currently live with my mother, and my dad has visitation rights. My mother works a lot, and goes out a lot, and that's about it. I'm left to take care of my 3 year old baby sister and the 5 bedroom house that my mom financially struggles to keep. She lets the bills fall through the cracks instead of giving up cigarettes, alchohol, bar nights, and daily runs to the store for a hot cup of coffee instead of making it at home. Long story short: she has her priorities backwards, but won't change a thing. I have gone to people (adults) in and out of my family, and even my dad has tried to talk to her about this, but she only gets defensive, hurt, and very, very angry with me when anyone tries to talk some sense into her. She gets angry with me for doing my schoolwork instead of cleaning the house, when she has a day off and does nothing but sleep in due to a hangover, and has no problem with screaming at me and her baby things like "I can't f*****g raise these kids" or "I ought to shoot myself in the head" or "I seriously wish I never had any kids!" When the 3 year old (that SHE decided to have with a constantly-relapsing crackhead) wakes up earlier (and crankier) than expected.
We have gone months without groceries because she "forgot" to fill out and turn in some required paperwork for food stamps, months where she would go out to eat with her drinking buddies and I would scrounge for food for the baby, I've gone days without eating. Eating is painful for me anyways, because I have fillings that are just falling out since I haven't been to a dentist since before the baby was born. (I currently have a tooth that, if I don't fill it with some special goo that my kid sister got for her braces, would be literally tearing up the inside of my cheek) i get headaches daily, crippling migraines at least twice a week, which have gone unchecked for a very long time to the point where the only medication that will take it away is Ibuprofen. About 1,800 mg worth for a mild headache. Not healthy, but it's the only way I can physicaly force myself to be able to take care of the baby when a headache ensues.
Not to mention the fact that she is involved with drug dealers (today she brought over her best friend, who is a heavy heroin addict with no plans on recovery) and has broken the 3-year PFA she had on her ex(???) (The father of my little sister) who literally tried to rape her and kill her because he gor drunk and wanted some crack and she tried to stop him from leaving. While my two younger sisters were there. In the same room. (The youngest was obviously only a few months old at the ime, but still.) Also, he got drunk and punched her in the head one time, knocking her unconscious... While she was 5 months pregnant. He has caused us to be homeless before, sold things in our house that weren't his at all, and caused many a breakdown from just about everyone in the house, except me because I'm not allowed. She has been talking to him, and he has been here (to our home) quite a few times. She tells me it's just so he can give her money to pay the bills... But some of them are over $3k behind. (And for tax returns, we got over $6k, none of which went into bills. At all. She told me she 'lent' out $5k of it.)

Things aren't much better at my dad's. I cannot force myself to have a conversation with him about anything without crying, so I just don't. Anytime I do, he takes extreme measures, such as talking to my mom directly, telling her exactly what I told him and when (though oftentimes blowing it out of proportion), to which my mom directs all of her anger onto me. Also, my kid sister, who was mentioned before, lives with him. She has a tendency of doing anything she can as "innocently" as she can to tear down my emotional walls and make me feel like a worthless human being, then getting me yelled at for it. She is mentally unstable (as described by psychologists in the many mental hospitals she has been in in the past year) and has tried to convince me to participate in self-harming activities such as cutting, and overdosing on medication. (She asked me one day if she was a trigger, if seeing her cut made me want to again, since I have a very short history of it, and when I responded with "No, because I don't want people to see that on me, it's not who I am so it's not what I want people to percieve of me." She responded with "Well just do it on your legs, they won't look there.") So I hope you understand that it isn't healthy for me to be around a person like that.

Long story short: Mother shoves all her parental duties on me and refuses me the chance at a healthy teenage life, all while abusing my mental state, and at my father's I would be susceptible to my sister's unhealthy "advice" and other emotional abuse.

I turn 18 on the first of november. That means I would have to wait about 17 weeks, or approximately 4 months to move out legally. But I honestly cannot wait that long. I'm at my breaking point, almost seriously contemplating suicide to escape this circle of hatred that's centered itself around me.

My mother went to the hospital yesterday complaining that her shoulder hurts. They told her it would go away, and sent her home. (she often conplains about small things, so this is believable.) She got angry with me when she got home for asking how it went, and said "Go move in with mike, I don't care!" Which prompted me to search the web and see if I could. (Mike is my boyfriend, we've been together for over 3 years, and have plans for me to move in with his family when I turn 18 anyways, which his family is excited for, they love me and are even including me in their search for a house) This is my best "way out", because with them I would be able to get a job, finish school, have extracirricular activities, and save up money for a car and, eventually, an apartment or even a house with Mike. And if things don't turn out well for Mike and I (which I understand happens, and can happen to anyone) I will still have some money and something to start a life on my own from. I will not return to my mother's care, or my father's.

So my questions...
If I leave, can my parents have me forcibly returned to their care? Or since I'm so close to being 18, will it be okay?
Will what my mother said have any effect on what they do if my father tries to have me forcibly returned to him?
Can I, in Pennsylvania, with this little bit of consent, move out and live with my boyfriend and his family?
Will him or his family get in any trouble for this? (He is two months older than me, turning 18 mid-september)

Can I get emancipated, instead?
If I do try to emancipate myself, can I stay with my boyfriend in the duration of the legal proceedings? (I plan to do this when my mother isn't home, so that she cannot try to stop me like I know she will)
I have easy access to my social security card and my birth certificate. If and when I leave, should I take them with me?

Also... What repercussions could this have on my baby sister...? I am very worried about her, I don't want her to be taken away and put in foster care or anything like that... Could she be put in the care of her oldest sister, if she is taken from my mother? (her father's daughter, who is almost 19 and babysits when I absolutely cannot)
She is the only reason I haven't left and tried to do anything months ago. Without me, I... I don't know what my mom might do, who she might bring the baby around, who she'll let watch her if she does keep her... She's already, to my knowledge, let a person she describes as a "cokehead" babysit her.
But I should try to make sure my life is in order, right? She's my sister, not my child, I have no obligations to raise her, but I do feel guilty just up and leaving her in a situation like this... At least knowing she would in the end be very well taken care of (I trust her oldest sister, she's a good egg) would make me feel a lot better doing this.

Thank you, anyone, for your help in this matter. I just want the chance at the normal, healthy life that I believe I deserve.
 


Silverplum

Senior Member
Why haven't you reported going hungry (and other things) to a school counselor? Or the police? You can and should take your problems to the authorities who are in place to help you.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Pennsylvania

Hello. I am 17 years old, and have been dealing with some... major family issues, to say the least. I turn 18 on the first of November, and was wondering about the 'runaway' laws in my state. I'll give a little more information, in the hopes of recieving some more accurate advice and information.

I currently live with my mother, and my dad has visitation rights. My mother works a lot, and goes out a lot, and that's about it. I'm left to take care of my 3 year old baby sister and the 5 bedroom house that my mom financially struggles to keep. She lets the bills fall through the cracks instead of giving up cigarettes, alchohol, bar nights, and daily runs to the store for a hot cup of coffee instead of making it at home. Long story short: she has her priorities backwards, but won't change a thing. I have gone to people (adults) in and out of my family, and even my dad has tried to talk to her about this, but she only gets defensive, hurt, and very, very angry with me when anyone tries to talk some sense into her. She gets angry with me for doing my schoolwork instead of cleaning the house, when she has a day off and does nothing but sleep in due to a hangover, and has no problem with screaming at me and her baby things like "I can't f*****g raise these kids" or "I ought to shoot myself in the head" or "I seriously wish I never had any kids!" When the 3 year old (that SHE decided to have with a constantly-relapsing crackhead) wakes up earlier (and crankier) than expected.
We have gone months without groceries because she "forgot" to fill out and turn in some required paperwork for food stamps, months where she would go out to eat with her drinking buddies and I would scrounge for food for the baby, I've gone days without eating. Eating is painful for me anyways, because I have fillings that are just falling out since I haven't been to a dentist since before the baby was born. (I currently have a tooth that, if I don't fill it with some special goo that my kid sister got for her braces, would be literally tearing up the inside of my cheek) i get headaches daily, crippling migraines at least twice a week, which have gone unchecked for a very long time to the point where the only medication that will take it away is Ibuprofen. About 1,800 mg worth for a mild headache. Not healthy, but it's the only way I can physicaly force myself to be able to take care of the baby when a headache ensues.
Not to mention the fact that she is involved with drug dealers (today she brought over her best friend, who is a heavy heroin addict with no plans on recovery) and has broken the 3-year PFA she had on her ex(???) (The father of my little sister) who literally tried to rape her and kill her because he gor drunk and wanted some crack and she tried to stop him from leaving. While my two younger sisters were there. In the same room. (The youngest was obviously only a few months old at the ime, but still.) Also, he got drunk and punched her in the head one time, knocking her unconscious... While she was 5 months pregnant. He has caused us to be homeless before, sold things in our house that weren't his at all, and caused many a breakdown from just about everyone in the house, except me because I'm not allowed. She has been talking to him, and he has been here (to our home) quite a few times. She tells me it's just so he can give her money to pay the bills... But some of them are over $3k behind. (And for tax returns, we got over $6k, none of which went into bills. At all. She told me she 'lent' out $5k of it.)

Things aren't much better at my dad's. I cannot force myself to have a conversation with him about anything without crying, so I just don't. Anytime I do, he takes extreme measures, such as talking to my mom directly, telling her exactly what I told him and when (though oftentimes blowing it out of proportion), to which my mom directs all of her anger onto me. Also, my kid sister, who was mentioned before, lives with him. She has a tendency of doing anything she can as "innocently" as she can to tear down my emotional walls and make me feel like a worthless human being, then getting me yelled at for it. She is mentally unstable (as described by psychologists in the many mental hospitals she has been in in the past year) and has tried to convince me to participate in self-harming activities such as cutting, and overdosing on medication. (She asked me one day if she was a trigger, if seeing her cut made me want to again, since I have a very short history of it, and when I responded with "No, because I don't want people to see that on me, it's not who I am so it's not what I want people to percieve of me." She responded with "Well just do it on your legs, they won't look there.") So I hope you understand that it isn't healthy for me to be around a person like that.

Long story short: Mother shoves all her parental duties on me and refuses me the chance at a healthy teenage life, all while abusing my mental state, and at my father's I would be susceptible to my sister's unhealthy "advice" and other emotional abuse.

I turn 18 on the first of november. That means I would have to wait about 17 weeks, or approximately 4 months to move out legally. But I honestly cannot wait that long. I'm at my breaking point, almost seriously contemplating suicide to escape this circle of hatred that's centered itself around me.

My mother went to the hospital yesterday complaining that her shoulder hurts. They told her it would go away, and sent her home. (she often conplains about small things, so this is believable.) She got angry with me when she got home for asking how it went, and said "Go move in with mike, I don't care!" Which prompted me to search the web and see if I could. (Mike is my boyfriend, we've been together for over 3 years, and have plans for me to move in with his family when I turn 18 anyways, which his family is excited for, they love me and are even including me in their search for a house) This is my best "way out", because with them I would be able to get a job, finish school, have extracirricular activities, and save up money for a car and, eventually, an apartment or even a house with Mike. And if things don't turn out well for Mike and I (which I understand happens, and can happen to anyone) I will still have some money and something to start a life on my own from. I will not return to my mother's care, or my father's.

So my questions...
If I leave, can my parents have me forcibly returned to their care? Or since I'm so close to being 18, will it be okay?
Will what my mother said have any effect on what they do if my father tries to have me forcibly returned to him?
Can I, in Pennsylvania, with this little bit of consent, move out and live with my boyfriend and his family?
Will him or his family get in any trouble for this? (He is two months older than me, turning 18 mid-september)

Can I get emancipated, instead?
If I do try to emancipate myself, can I stay with my boyfriend in the duration of the legal proceedings? (I plan to do this when my mother isn't home, so that she cannot try to stop me like I know she will)
I have easy access to my social security card and my birth certificate. If and when I leave, should I take them with me?

Also... What repercussions could this have on my baby sister...? I am very worried about her, I don't want her to be taken away and put in foster care or anything like that... Could she be put in the care of her oldest sister, if she is taken from my mother? (her father's daughter, who is almost 19 and babysits when I absolutely cannot)
She is the only reason I haven't left and tried to do anything months ago. Without me, I... I don't know what my mom might do, who she might bring the baby around, who she'll let watch her if she does keep her... She's already, to my knowledge, let a person she describes as a "cokehead" babysit her.
But I should try to make sure my life is in order, right? She's my sister, not my child, I have no obligations to raise her, but I do feel guilty just up and leaving her in a situation like this... At least knowing she would in the end be very well taken care of (I trust her oldest sister, she's a good egg) would make me feel a lot better doing this.

Thank you, anyone, for your help in this matter. I just want the chance at the normal, healthy life that I believe I deserve.
You're not going to be emancipated.

First, PA does not actually have a statute providing emancipation for minors; when it is possible it's done at the county level and it may not even be possible in your county. Second, in order to be emancipated you must prove that you are already capable of fully supporting yourself (which you cannot do). Finally, even if it was possible and you did qualify, you'd be 18 before it was heard in court anyway.

Ditto what SilverPlum said.
 

TamraM

Junior Member
I haven't gone to a school counsellor because I any time I have tried, they just give me a pack of crackers and send me on my way. Now I am enrolled in cyber school and have no access to that.

I've been told that it's just how it is, I'm my mom's oldest daughter and she works (and parties) so everything else is left to me and I can't keep up with it all and school and try to have any kind of life outside of it, if that makes sense. I'm lucky that I get to go outside the house once every two weeks to see my boyfriend for an hour or two. She's completely closed me off from the world, and i don't know who to trust.

My 15 year old sister had a therapy session at my mom's house once when only she and I were able to be at the table talking, since my mom was passed out with a hangover in her room (at almost 5pm...) And I told them everything. They honestly didn't know what to do, I had thought everything was normal up until then, that that's just stuff I had to deal with, but they looked mortified and gave me a number to call, but I held off, trying to just wait until Im 18 but now I just... I don't know, I guess I just can't do it anymore?

My boyfriend's mother called both CYS and the local police department (non-emergency) to ask about the situation and what I should do, and they directed us towards getting me emancipated. Even if, as someone said on a separate thread, I won't get into court before I'm 18, I recieved clarification that during the legal proceedings of the emancipation I would be allowed to live with them and get a job, go to doctors, etc.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
My boyfriend's mother called both CYS and the local police department (non-emergency) to ask about the situation and what I should do, and they directed us towards getting me emancipated. Even if, as someone said on a separate thread, I won't get into court before I'm 18, I recieved clarification that during the legal proceedings of the emancipation I would be allowed to live with them and get a job, go to doctors, etc.


CYS and the local PD are not attorneys and they did NOT give you correct information. Not. Even. Close.

Think about it - the reasons why should be obvious.
 

TamraM

Junior Member
I'm sorry if the reasons against my emancipation aren't "obvious" to me, I have made living arrangements and the only reason I don't have a job and drivers license and such is because I am not allowed by my parent. My mother broke the PFA and brings the dangerous man into the house when she feels like seeing him, and is neglectful in caring for her children. No matter who tries to talk to her, or who I have tried to talk to, noone can get her to change, so I have to do something to care for my own well-being, don't I?

And they've asked me to come in and fill out paperwork for the emancipation, so it is something that can happen in my county.
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
I'm sorry if the reasons against my emancipation aren't "obvious" to me, I have made living arrangements and the only reason I don't have a job and drivers license and such is because I am not allowed by my parent. My mother broke the PFA and brings the dangerous man into the house when she feels like seeing him, and is neglectful in caring for her children. No matter who tries to talk to her, or who I have tried to talk to, noone can get her to change, so I have to do something to care for my own well-being, don't I?

And they've asked me to come in and fill out paperwork for the emancipation, so it is something that can happen in my county.
The law is the law. It doesn't change by county.

http://www.phila.gov/dhs/reportNeglect.html
 

TamraM

Junior Member
So that's it then? Just suffer and hope things don't get too bad before I turn 18 or that somebody will come to the door to drag my sister and I away? Or have them contact mom, and let her lie her way out of it, only to cause her to be even harder on me...? CYS have been called, and I had to sit there and say nothing as my mom lied her way out of it.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
I'm sorry if the reasons against my emancipation aren't "obvious" to me, I have made living arrangements and the only reason I don't have a job and drivers license and such is because I am not allowed by my parent. My mother broke the PFA and brings the dangerous man into the house when she feels like seeing him, and is neglectful in caring for her children. No matter who tries to talk to her, or who I have tried to talk to, noone can get her to change, so I have to do something to care for my own well-being, don't I?

And they've asked me to come in and fill out paperwork for the emancipation, so it is something that can happen in my county.

Emancipation is not and never was intended to be a means for a teen to escape parental care and control. There are ways for an abused child to get out of the abusive household; emancipation is not one of those ways.

(And this is why countrywide the success rate is around 5%)

The state does not want its taxpayers to pick up the tab for a child who wants to go and live with friends, relatives or anybody else while they're not capable of supporting themselves. The court will look - nay, HUNT - for reasons to deny an emancipation petition, and for good reason. They want to see that you are ALREADY capable of supporting yourself. What happens if you and the boyfriend break up? Or the parents have to relocate and can't take you with them?

If what you think you were told was actually true, it would be disastrous - it would open the gate for every teen who gets annoyed at their parents to file emancipation paperwork and get to circumvent their parents' absolute right to control where they live and what they do. That's just not how it works.

Think about it.

Either you misunderstood what you were told, or you were simply given incorrect information.

(Well, there's a third possibility which may actually be the most likely, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. For now)
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
So that's it then? Just suffer and hope things don't get too bad before I turn 18 or that somebody will come to the door to drag my sister and I away? Or have them contact mom, and let her lie her way out of it, only to cause her to be even harder on me...? CYS have been called, and I had to sit there and say nothing as my mom lied her way out of it.
Emancipation isn't going to happen Tamra. I'm sorry - I know that's not what you want to hear, but you need to know the truth.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
I actually feel really awful. I think Tamra may have been given some erroneous information and I feel like I've just told my granddaughter that the Easter Bunny isn't real.

Y'know?

:/
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
I actually feel really awful. I think Tamra may have been given some erroneous information and I feel like I've just told my granddaughter that the Easter Bunny isn't real.

Y'know?

:/
Before you feel too bad, you might want to review her posting history. She has posted three versions of her story and at least one of the other versions makes her look much less sympathetic.
 

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