17 yr MI

[quincy]

Abuse does include things like verbal abuse, there are some parents who do a very thorough job destroying a childs self esteem thru name calling, telling the child they cant do any thing right, they are worthless, or in the case of daughters some parents include things like telling her she is a SL*t or a Wh*re over and over. Chris if by chance you can stick it out until your 18th birthday have a plan ready and carry it out , you are free to take ALL of your personal property and any furniture you paid for even if that means having a friend assist you. AS far as school goes, should you stick it out until you are 18 once you are then you go to the school offices after you have moved away and make it crystal clear to them that they are to change your records to your new address and phone , you are now 18 and no longer live at home and since you are no longer under 18 or live with your parents that they are NOT to discuss any matter about you to them any more. ( if you must then go to the principle with this issue once you are 18 and on own ) About renting somewhere , honestly when I had my 4 plex there was a young man I knew of whose mom would have cosigned for him since he was 17 and wanting to be on his own, personally I think it would have been a nightmare, most landlords I suspect would not want to rent to someone under 18 since there is no legal way to enter into a contract with the 17 yr old. If there is another relative you could live with that may be the way to go. Decades ago I left right after my 18th birthday and know from experience what it is like to grow up with toxic parenting.

In Michigan, it is legal for a 17-year-old to leave home. The police will not get involved (unless there is a safety issue) and the courts will not get involved (unless it is to order the parents to continue to provide support up through age 18).

I know of a high school student who chose to leave her house at age 17 because she could no longer take the abuse from her parents (mom and stepdad, no dad). She was able to finish her high school education while working and living on her own, and she went on to attend college, graduating with honors. This girl was lucky in that she had an amazing support system of friends, teachers, relatives and employers, all of whom helped her along the way.

I would never advise that someone stay in a home where they were being seriously abused - and I would not wish involvement with Michigan's Child Services on anyone, if there are reasonable and safe alternatives.

 

[CdwJava]

On the other hand, the OP could just be a petulant child whose parents have rules, do not like their friends or significant other, or has to do chores instead of being pampered. Speculating that there is actually some form of physical or even "emotional" abuse is a tad premature.

I have heard the OP's almost exact statement from kids who were neither abused nor put down, but simply did not like the rules.

 

[quincy]

On the other hand, the OP could just be a petulant child whose parents have rules, do not like their friends or significant other, or has to do chores instead of being pampered. Speculating that there is actually some form of physical or even "emotional" abuse is a tad premature.

I have heard the OP's almost exact statement from kids who were neither abused nor put down, but simply did not like the rules.

And it is a bit premature to assume that all is fine and dandy in the home, too.

I gave Chris the laws are they are in Michigan, mostly to correct the incorrect information that was provided. Here is a link to Michigan's Act of 1968 Index, if someone finds it easier than using the arrows to access the laws: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(dtznbhvlz2navc15tassbh5e))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-Act-293-of-1968

Chris can move out of his parents' house at age 17. His parents cannot force him to come home. The police won't force him to go home. Chris can move in with someone else and that person cannot be charged with aiding and abetting a runaway. Chris can move out if he is being abused by his parents. Chris can move out if he doesn't like his parents' rules.

It is not easy for any 17-year-old who has not yet graduated from high school to move away from home without parental support. Balancing work and school and living expenses is tough. Although many college students do this on a regular basis, FarmerJ mentioned one of the reasons why it can be more difficult for a 17-year-old high school student than it can be for a traditional college student. Many landlords will not rent to high school students or to someone under the age of 18. And high-school students tend to earn less at the jobs they are able to get than high-school graduates.

Chris seems to have already lined up a place to live once he leaves home, though, so that is good.

I think it is fine to support parents. I am one. But I think it is a disservice to young posters who come here looking for correct information to give them the same old song-and-dance routine (e.g., your parents control you, your parents can force you, your parents own you, you have no rights ...) when, in many cases, this is just not true.

 

[CdwJava]

I never presumed that all was "fine and dandy." Just that experience has taught me that for the most part, the kids that scream that their parents are evil tend not to be really abused at all. There are exceptions, but, they are that - exceptions.

It is also why I posted using words like "may" as opposed to "will" since I cannot be sure what inane laws a particular state might enact.

As a parent, I personally find it offensive that, if true, the state of MI mandates that a parent must support a child, and be legally liable for his or her actions, yet cannot legally take any control over that child?! I HOPE that you are misinterpreting the law. If not, then thank God I don't live in that state. If MI wants to take over the legal responsibility and liability for runaway children, then maybe I could be okay with such a thing. As it is, it is simply offensive to mandate a parent be entirely liable yet have no control. I suspect that there is something missing in the picture you paint. At least, I hope there is.

 

[quincy]

I never presumed that all was "fine and dandy." Just that experience has taught me that for the most part, the kids that scream that their parents are evil tend not to be really abused at all. There are exceptions, but, they are that - exceptions.

It is also why I posted using words like "may" as opposed to "will" since I cannot be sure what inane laws a particular state might enact.

As a parent, I personally find it offensive that, if true, the state of MI mandates that a parent must support a child, and be legally liable for his or her actions, yet cannot legally take any control over that child?! I HOPE that you are misinterpreting the law. If not, then thank God I don't live in that state. If MI wants to take over the legal responsibility and liability for runaway children, then maybe I could be okay with such a thing. As it is, it is simply offensive to mandate a parent be entirely liable yet have no control. I suspect that there is something missing in the picture you paint. At least, I hope there is.

Read the case I cited and the laws I linked to and decide for yourself if the picture I painted is correct.

One of the reasons the State of Michigan requires that parents support their children through age 18 is so that the State does not have to support the children through its welfare programs. Many states (California is one, Michigan is not) require adults to support their (elderly) parents financially, even when these adults have no control over their parents, this if the parents would otherwise need state aid. So, other than the ages involved (17 versus 70), Michigan's law is really not all that different.

What I have said in this thread, by the way, is not because I think Chris should leave his home. I don't know whether he has a good reason to leave or not, or whether his idea of "good reason" would be the same as my idea of "good reason." I have given Chris the laws in Michigan and he can do with these laws what he feels he needs to do.

 

[commentator]

So, having read everything, including the court case, my question is, during his 17th year, while he is a senior in high school, can Chris continue his school sports activities if his parents refuse to give him permission to do so? That he is fully involved in these, and that he plans to continue with them after he moves in with his pals and becomes an independent man makes it sound a bit less like someone fleeing serious abuse and more like "don't want them telling me what to do" to me. Also, if he has been using a vehicle titled in the parents name, with them carrying the insurance, can they not refuse to do that anymore, thus taking away his whole transportation program? What about health insurance?

 

[quincy]

So, having read everything, including the court case, my question is, during his 17th year, while he is a senior in high school, can Chris continue his school sports activities if his parents refuse to give him permission to do so? That he is fully involved in these, and that he plans to continue with them after he moves in with his pals and becomes an independent man makes it sound a bit less like someone fleeing serious abuse and more like "don't want them telling me what to do" to me. Also, if he has been using a vehicle titled in the parents name, with them carrying the insurance, can they not refuse to do that anymore, thus taking away his whole transportation program? What about health insurance?

In the case I cited, the parents had revoked their daughter's driver's license, withheld her social security card, refused her medical care and did not support her school activities. A county probate judge appointed a guardian and conservator for the girl and ordered the parents to pay child support.

The parents appealed (i am not sure if an appeal is still pending) and the parents are now working to change the laws in Michigan. Representatives of the girl are seeking legal and guardian costs from the parents.

I do not know what will happen if Chris moves from his home. If he is counting on a sports scholarship, it is possible he can find support enough so he can continue with his school activities. I just don't know. But the State can step in to see that he can survive outside his parents home.

 

[cbg]

Under Federal law, with limited exceptions the parents *may* continue to cover their children on their health insurance until the age of 26, regardless of whether they are living at home, not living at home, married, unmarried, tax dependents, not tax dependents, or pretty much any other variable you can think of. They are not required to do so, but they may. Neither the employer nor the insurance carrier can prohibit them from doing so if they want to.

However, I could find nothing in either Federal or Michigan law that obligated Chris's parents to continue his health insurance after he moves out if they do not wish to continue it. They will have to wait until an Open Enrollment period or until there is an IRS-approved qualifying event to drop him; his moving out may or may not, depending on details, be a QE in and of itself. But if they want to say, "Fine; you think you can support yourself, you can buy your own health insurance", I couldn't find anything in the law that would stop them from doing so.

 

[justalayman]

In Michigan, it is legal for a 17-year-old to leave home. The police will not get involved (unless there is a safety issue) and the courts will not get involved (unless it is to order the parents to continue to provide support up through age 18).

I know of a high school student who chose to leave her house at age 17 because she could no longer take the abuse from her parents (mom and stepdad, no dad). She was able to finish her high school education while working and living on her own, and she went on to attend college, graduating with honors. This girl was lucky in that she had an amazing support system of friends, teachers, relatives and employers, all of whom helped her along the way.

I would never advise that someone stay in a home where they were being seriously abused - and I would not wish involvement with Michigan's Child Services on anyone, if there are reasonable and safe alternatives.

and I know a 17 yo that was not allowed to finish high school because the parents withdrew their permission and the kid, not being 18 was not allowed to register their self. He had to wait until he turned 18 and attend "adult Ed".

Regardless of the quirk in the law, a kid cannot act as an adult with the authority of an adult until they turn 18...

And the driver's license, ya, that went away too until they turned 18.

 

[quincy]

and I know a 17 yo that was not allowed to finish high school because the parents withdrew their permission and the kid, not being 18 was not allowed to register their self. He had to wait until he turned 18 and attend "adult Ed".

Regardless of the quirk in the law, a kid cannot act as an adult with the authority of an adult until they turn 18...

And the driver's license, ya, that went away too until they turned 18.

That would have changed for the student if he had sought help from the state.

I imagine many who"run away" from home do not look to their state for help, though. The fact that the Reardon girl had trusted adults to look to for advice helped her (although it got the adults sued ).

 

[justalayman]

What help could the state provide? Unless legally emancipated a person does not have the authority of majority. That means they can't sign to obtain a driver's license nor can they admit themselves to a school.

Given the issue does not rise until the child is 17, the time remaining until 18 often does not allow for much any action anyway.

 

[quincy]

What help could the state provide? Unless legally emancipated a person does not have the authority of majority. That means they can't sign to obtain a driver's license nor can they admit themselves to a school.

Given the issue does not rise until the child is 17, the time remaining until 18 often does not allow for much any action anyway.

It worked for Reardon. She was 17 when she left home.

 

[commentator]

Well, for the life of me, given the number of parental consents I have signed in my life, I cannot imagine any school system that would allow a 17 year old to participate in a school sports activity without the consent of parents and proof of health insurance. I also cannot imagine that a high school student would be able to do enough out-of-school work to support himself, make car payments, pay car insurance, pay for electronics, pay for his food and board and etc. and still participate in sports and keep his grades up to the point of graduation, even if the school system was very supportive and allowed him to enroll himself and do all this with his parents raising cain on the sidelines.

I do notice that the girl in the Michigan case cited had lots of people helping her and providing transportation and support and guidance from others. Perhaps they saw something like a situation where a person truly needed to get out of there. I have honestly seen bad ones though most of them have involved a little bit more than just 'strict parents.'