Travel Expenses

[pfdsc7]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Colorado

My daughter plays club volleyball. Our contract states:
"Participant DUES include the following: 1) facilities fees; 2) coaching fees; 3) uniforms; 4) junior official’s certification, where applicable; 5) RMR
tournament entry fees; and 6) administrative expenses. All TRAVEL EXPENSES, RMR and AAU individual registrations are ADDITIONAL.
Travel fees (TBD) are due and payable in full prior to each trip."

However, the invoices for travel expenses that we receive are not itemized. When I requested an itemized invoice, the Executive Director replied, "We don’t do a line by line itemization. We cost the trip at the best prices we can get. Its is what it is." Of course, our expenses are ridiculously high. Our girls just spent 4 days, 3 nights at a tournament in Las Vegas. They sleep 4 to a room. For just hotel, meals (each player was allocated $85), and ground transportation - note that airfare is NOT included - we were charged $575.

Am I protected by Consumer Rights Laws in requesting an itemized invoice or am I screwed? I would like to take the position that until I receive an itemized invoice, I am not paying it.

Thank you for your time! I sincerely appreciate it!!!

 

[Zigner]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Colorado

My daughter plays club volleyball. Our contract states:
"Participant DUES include the following: 1) facilities fees; 2) coaching fees; 3) uniforms; 4) junior official’s certification, where applicable; 5) RMR
tournament entry fees; and 6) administrative expenses. All TRAVEL EXPENSES, RMR and AAU individual registrations are ADDITIONAL.
Travel fees (TBD) are due and payable in full prior to each trip."

However, the invoices for travel expenses that we receive are not itemized. When I requested an itemized invoice, the Executive Director replied, "We don’t do a line by line itemization. We cost the trip at the best prices we can get. Its is what it is." Of course, our expenses are ridiculously high. Our girls just spent 4 days, 3 nights at a tournament in Las Vegas. They sleep 4 to a room. For just hotel, meals (each player was allocated $85), and ground transportation - note that airfare is NOT included - we were charged $575.

Am I protected by Consumer Rights Laws in requesting an itemized invoice or am I screwed? I would like to take the position that until I receive an itemized invoice, I am not paying it.

Thank you for your time! I sincerely appreciate it!!!

4 days/3 nights in Vegas for $143.75/day seems like a deal to me.

 

[adjusterjack]

I would like to take the position that until I receive an itemized invoice, I am not paying it.

And the volleyball team can take the position that your daughter not play until you pay.

In the future you are free to make your own air and lodging arrangements for your daughter and control the expenses yourself.

My guess is that you will end up spending more than the discounts that the club gets.

Why not call the hotel and find out what the usual daily rate is and see how close it comes.

 

[LdiJ]

4 days/3 nights in Vegas for $143.75/day seems like a deal to me.

There were 4 girls to a room and each one of them was charged 143.75 a day...so a total of 575.00 a day. Does that still seem like a deal to you?

I do not know if it is or isn't, but I did not think that hotels were that expensive in Vegas.

I can tell you that when I attended the last IRS seminar in Las Vegas hotel rooms were about 150.00 a night, and that was only about 5 years ago.

 

[Just Blue]

There were 4 girls to a room and each one of them was charged 143.75 a day...so a total of 575.00 a day. Does that still seem like a deal to you?

I do not know if it is or isn't, but I did not think that hotels were that expensive in Vegas.

I can tell you that when I attended the last IRS seminar in Las Vegas hotel rooms were about 150.00 a night, and that was only about 5 years ago.

Reread the 1st post.

 

[NIV]

I'm not sure all the answers reflect the reality of club sports today. In the past, it evolved to a point where the best players could play the best players to make the best players from top competition and the fees involved were to cover costs of making it happen and were determined by the whole group. Today, it is a big money industry. Youth coaches can make excellent wages and some clubs are multi-million dollar businesses. Combine where the industry has moved with the ever-present thought their child will get a scholarship only by participation and many club owner/directors may get away with profit focus over service focus by knowing the club rules they created prevent players from moving from bad clubs to good in a single season--thus artificially reducing (business) competition.

I agree with pfdsc7, when a business wants you to buy their service they should give you enough information to know what is being bought. I bet the real problem is not in not knowing what is being bought here, but in believing the profit is too high. Because of the nature of the relationship, an individual can do nothing to change that. Even if they give you a detailed and itemized billing (with a little bump up for profit), what could be done? You have the same choice you have now, go or don't go. Unless the contract states you will get an itemized billing, you are not legally required to receive one.

Clubs have a very specialized business model that, at its core, will have a full team doing what the director wants. If people stop doing that, the model breaks down and the director must change policy. pfdsc7's problem is I suspect this Vegas trip is to go to a last chance tournament where the players get to be seen by college coaches. Few will choose to not go as things like this is the reason many wasted so much money in sport in the first place; to get a chance at a scholarship. Even the non-seniors don't want to rock the boat as the director might get mad at them and not sign them up next year. It is a perfect storm of nonsense that is not going to be fixed until parents wake up to the reality of the scholarship calculation.

Sometimes the director makes a mistake and butchers the cow rather than just take the milk. Parents get angry and find another place. The only advice I could give is to try and make that happen sooner over later. If the child is a senior, I know pfdsc7 is not going to give up this "opportunity" so wonder why he is here. If a junior and the child is really good enough to get a scholarship, many clubs would take her so the parent should go to them when possible. (If no others around, then it is the same as the senior problem.) If younger than that, WHY would people put up with such treatment? From a BUSINESS? Get the families together who are upset with the business practices of the club and don't go. The director won't get the amount of kickback he thinks he deserves (Often, free accommodations.) and profits go down. Unless pfdsc7's child is a junior or a senior or the michelle/michal jordan of volleyball, the tournament means NOTHING. Don't listen to what others are telling you. NOTHING good will happen in the players' volleyball prospects because of the trip. (I only put "good" there as there is always a chance of injury that ruins all prospects.)

That does not mean getting together with friends in Vegas isn't fun. pfdc7's desire for a more detailed invoice is a reasonable step to insure a fair chance of balancing the fun with the cost. I wish there was some way to say magic words and make it happen in the short term. In the longer term, the only hope is to push back against the director by realizing that to the player the goal should be fun and personal development while to the director it is profit and deal with the situation appropriately. That is often hard as people get fooled and focus on secondary goals and motivations. The director is no longer doing this simply for the love of sport and the players should no longer do this simply for the dream of a scholarship. Once that reality sets in, how to deal with this business problem becomes easier--especially if others feel the same way.