Is coin collection personal property?

[fertilepress]

So you did say Georgia. Sorry about that. It's still not New York or Texas.

Not seeing any Georgia case law that will help you either. There's a pretty good decision however that if you were to take this to court, to get monetary valuation MORE than the face value of the coins, you had better gone through standard numismatic grading and inventorying. Otherwise, it's just a sack of coins. That still doesn't address whether this fits the definiton of money in the policy however.

I suspect you are out of luck. As I said, the ANA warns you that standard homeowners policies aren't likely to be sufficient.

Absent precedent, you'd have to convince the court under a preponderance of the evidence that your collection doesn't fit the definition of "money." The problem is on one hand the law reads things literally. Money in the dictionary comprises coins, paper bills, and representations thereof. On the other hand, if you treated these coins by some legitimate standard as something beyond their pure currency, you may prevail.

Did you have appraisals, inventory of the grader-slabbed coins, etc...?

I have all of our purchase records. I am only asking for reimbursement of that, not actual market value today. What is weird to me is that while estate and divorce courts tend to treat them as personal property with value beyond their face value, insurance cases treat them as simply money. How is that?

 

[fertilepress]

Let me ask you this. Let's say that you took all of those coins out of their fancy cases...could you go down to the bank and deposit them at face value? I'm not saying you would, just asking if you could.

Some yes, some no. Some are foreign, old Greek and Roman coins, pieces of eight, etc. It is also a combined coin and stamp collection my husband purchased over several years from a single source. That's why I have all of the records containing purchase prices.

 

[fertilepress]

I have also read where a decedent's will left all cash, money, currency, etc. to one party and personal property to another party. The dispute was over a valuable coin collection. The court found that the coins were personal property.

 

[Zigner]

Some yes, some no. Some are foreign, old Greek and Roman coins, pieces of eight, etc. It is also a combined coin and stamp collection my husband purchased over several years from a single source. That's why I have all of the records containing purchase prices.

I would argue that the items that are not negotiable are not "money". You can't go and spend old Greek Coins, Roman Coins, and pieces of eight.

Of course, you first need to get a copy of your actual policy. Then you can review it to see what exclusions may apply.

 

[Zigner]

I have also read where a decedent's will left all cash, money, currency, etc. to one party and personal property to another party. The dispute was over a valuable coin collection. The court found that the coins were personal property.

Without knowing exactly what is excluded, you are in the dark. Get that policy, read it, then come back with any questions that remain.

 

[fertilepress]

I would argue that the items that are not negotiable are not "money". You can't go and spend old Greek Coins, Roman Coins, and pieces of eight.

Of course, you first need to get a copy of your actual policy. Then you can review it to see what exclusions may apply.

That's what I will do. Thanks!

 

[FlyingRon]

I have all of our purchase records. I am only asking for reimbursement of that, not actual market value today. What is weird to me is that while estate and divorce courts tend to treat them as personal property with value beyond their face value, insurance cases treat them as simply money. How is that?

What you paid for them is largely immaterial.

It's not weird in the least. Divorce is concerned about the VALUE of the asset. There's not yet been any argument as to what the "value" of your collection is. The question is whether it fits into a category on your policy that has a cap. Absent any regulation or case law to the countrary, the wording your policy defines it. If you had one rare penny worth $200, Allstate would probably give you $200. They're not going to payout more than $200 for an aggregate amount of coins, no matter what their value is.

To argue that they aren't really "money", you'd have to show that you treated asset in its treatment is distinct from "money." I don't know if you have a chance or not.
How much are we talking about, value-wise?

 

[fertilepress]

Well, the value of my collection is a moot point now. I found my policy and it does indeed stipulate money to include numismatic property. Would that also cover the Greek and Roman coins and pieces of 8?

I can claim some of the value of the stamp collection, which has a $1000 limit.

Thanks for all the help!

Renee

 

[adjusterjack]

I assert that since the coins were all sealed in folios, albums, cases, etc., they are clearly part of a collection and therefore personal property, not cash.

Am I right?

Yes. You are right. Your collection is "personal property" and your policy does cover your "personal property" but limits the amount of coverage on certain categories of "personal property" i.e.: "money for $200."

I have had my policy for years and can only locate the most recent declarations pages. I have asked my agent to send me a copy of my full policy. Hoping to find a digital copy of my policy at Allstate's site, I could not find it but did find limitations which stated, among other things like jewelry, electronics, etc., the word money. No mention of numismatic collections. I'll be sure to look for that when I get the policy.

I was able to locate a sample of an Allstate's renters policy:

http://insurance.mo.gov/consumers/home/documents/AP5.pdf

See Page 5 for the limitation of:

$200 Money, bullion, bank notes, coins
and other numismatic property.

When a policy term is not defined in the policy a court will look, first, to its dictionary definition if the dictionary definition is clear and unambiguous.

Merriam-Webster's dictionary defines "numismatic" as "of or relating to numismatics" and "of or relating to currency."

"Numismatics" is defined as " the study or collection of coins, tokens, and paper money and sometimes related objects."

Well, the value of my collection is a moot point now. I found my policy and it does indeed stipulate money to include numismatic property. Would that also cover the Greek and Roman coins and pieces of 8?

Sorry, "coins" is "coins." The Greek and Roman coins and pieces of 8 are within the $200 limit.

 

[fertilepress]

Thanks, adjusterjack. I found my policy and read the same page. Thanks, too, for the clarification of the non-negotiable coins.

 

[latigo]

The two cases you've looked at really have no bearing on YOUR matter because they are out of state cases. (?)

Please pardon me for saying so, but no one with any appreciable experience in legal research and the preparation of legal memoranda and briefs would make that statement.

Rather they would be keenly aware that in instances where the issue under consideration is one of first impression that it is commonplace for the forum court to look to see how the subject has been treated by sister states.

 

[Zigner]

Please pardon me for saying so, but no one with any appreciable experience in legal research and the preparation of legal memoranda and briefs would make that statement.

Sure they would, lat

 

[Tammy75]

Furthermore, if you review your policy, you'll almost definitely find (as mentioned above) a limitation on numismatic collections.

The new dec pages specifically state what and what is not covered with mention of SPP (special personal property). When was the last time you reviewed your policy with your agent?