Nearing the end

[kolabok]

This is a GREAT example of why you need an attorney.

ETA: If there are no retirement accounts in play, then why do you feel a QDRO is necessary?

Nothing was ever finalized between X attorney and my employer's (local government) attorney by virtue of retirement plan administrator approval and I am no longer an employee. This open ended drama will linger until the cows come home or a financial meltdown apocalypse occurs.

 

[kolabok]

What you are asking for is beyond the scope of this forum. You would be wise to seek local counsel.

that may be a true statement and indeed if asking for legal help. But I merely (from the internet) see multiple vehicles for, quick fixes, DIY and from others in the same pickle asking questions. That's all I am doing asking hypothetical questions. I read somewhere courts in general have guides to do this or that in civil and in some cases criminal courts, but strongly emphasize not legal help. everything is becoming more accessible thru websites in all affairs of politics, government and courtrooms, is that not so?

 

[kolabok]

IF you do nothing and X sits on her fanny SHE may lose ..

IF you two agree on some lump sum payout ...and I suggest you do the math with care and be sure to think thru tax effects...well so be it .... And think younwould be far smarter to use a specialized legal pro...the $ fees I see on line look darn reasonable for getting it right. ...and get it blessed in order form .

Your X is unwise ...if you spend away your retirement and die she may find things impossible to reconstruct and collect.

thanks, plausible indeed, one is not out to do the other in. Cut the check and move on

 

[kolabok]

IF you do nothing and X sits on her fanny SHE may lose ..

IF you two agree on some lump sum payout ...and I suggest you do the math with care and be sure to think thru tax effects...well so be it .... And think younwould be far smarter to use a specialized legal pro...the $ fees I see on line look darn reasonable for getting it right. ...and get it blessed in order form .

Your X is unwise ...if you spend away your retirement and die she may find things impossible to reconstruct and collect.

that's it! numbers don't lie

 

[kolabok]

If its done right then nobody is responsible for taxes other than if they decide to cash out some or all of THEIR share...and they will only be responsible for taxes on their share. Therefore its not necessary to think through tax effects, its simply necessary to divide the account into two separate accounts and then each one goes from there.

there is not penalty in this scenario. It is still math that proves accurate in division of any kind

 

[kolabok]

The whole issue is quite a pet peeve of mine right now. I am watching huge numbers of taxpayers wasting massive amounts of retirement dollars on taxes when there is simply no need at all to do so...and mostly because they get stupid advice from attorneys or they have lost a job/are getting divorced and need SOME money, but certainly not their whole retirement account/their half of the retirement account.

My advice to people in those situations will forever be to roll over the money into an IRA, and then take out ONLY what you need when you actually need it. Therefore only paying tax on it in the year you actually take it out.

Heck, even those who really need all of it in the near future would be better off (at this time of year) to take half of it now and half of it after December 31st.

I can see why it is a pet peeve. The QDRO rules are spawned from the government which I can understand the protection of assets between spouses in divorce cases. It seems a profitable business for aspiring attorneys looking to maximize their college investment. The market is ripe with our disregard to infidelity and the costs, but to be sure the IRS is neck deep in this business to. Hence why my comp plan, 401 K, but as it is named, deferred comp plan, can not be accessed until the court approves a QDRO. So if you made bi weekly contributions to this and wind up in a court case , it could be a sinking ship. Your account would be frozen while the stock market plunges to the abyss and you can do nothing but continuing to throw money down this black hole. potential divorcees should definitely be alert to the financial pitfalls that could linger forever if left unfinished.
there is a broken wheel in there and it would obviously take legislation to change. my opinion

 

[LdiJ]

The math is straight forward in that the years worked total minus the years of marriage, which roughly equals 32%. Given an exact number of years married based on the valve of the annuity during this time of investment and the years worked before and beyond this marriage, is 31.234%

There is no retirement accounts to put money aside, it is a cash payout equivalent to percentage given to X. Last time I checked, no one turns away cash or a bank note

So, are you saying that you have other cash assets that you plan to use to pay off your ex's share of the retirement account(s)?

Then why do you need a QDRO and what is the need to meet the requirements of the plan administrator? Could you please explain what it is you want to do in plain language?

 

[HRZ]

OP...you keep throwing in new words and wrinkles.

MY strictly lay understanding is that your plan administrator is not a party to any debate and until and unless a QDRO is served upon the administrator there are no restrictions on Plan activity .

You might be under order not do certain things , like withdraw funds from plan, and you could be cited for contempt for violation...but wheter the order prevents you from management of investments inside the plan is not addressed.

IF she procrastinates long enough and dies first ...you may get it all . IF you die first she also might get zero as Plan would distribute per its rules and EX may not be a proper designation even if you made it earlier

I have no idea is your math is correct ...but if the two of you agree that $ XXX is her correct share and you get a court order for same as settlement of property division...so be it ..get it done..and,be sure it's not taxed to you.

Really, the EX needs to get off her duff?

 

[LdiJ]

OP...you keep throwing in new words and wrinkles.

MY strictly lay understanding is that your plan administrator is not a party to any debate and until and unless a QDRO is served upon the administrator there are no restrictions on Plan activity .

You might be under order not do certain things , like withdraw funds from plan, and you could be cited for contempt for violation...but wheter the order prevents you from management of investments inside the plan is not addressed.

IF she procrastinates long enough and dies first ...you may get it all . IF you die first she also might get zero as Plan would distribute per its rules and EX may not be a proper designation even if you made it earlier

I have no idea is your math is correct ...but if the two of you agree that $ XXX is her correct share and you get a court order for same as settlement of property division...so be it ..get it done..and,be sure it's not taxed to you.

Really, the EX needs to get off her duff?

I am completely confused now about what he is trying to do. I wish that he would just explain himself in plain language.

 

[HighwayMan]

I am completely confused now about what he is trying to do. I wish that he would just explain himself in plain language.

I wish he would just get a good attorney to deal with this.

 

[kolabok]

So, are you saying that you have other cash assets that you plan to use to pay off your ex's share of the retirement account(s)?

Then why do you need a QDRO and what is the need to meet the requirements of the plan administrator? Could you please explain what it is you want to do in plain language?

your right, being blindly stupid, it would be a renegotiation on our terms and relieve the court system of money handling. My wish list and the X would concur, is to use the remaining asset, which is doing well stock on its own merit, (not funded anymore) and earmark it for college for our daughter. And The retirement paid out in cash value of which is entitled to 32% to X.
my whole point was to negotiate the terrain of law, on our own merits, hence petitioning the court to make a motion to amend our business, or agree collectively to the court, thanks but no thanks, we agree to x,y,and z and here it is.
that's all.

on a side note, I am sure there a many of unfinished divorces with QDROs hanging over top and most will not get finalized for a variety of reasons

 

[kolabok]

I am completely confused now about what he is trying to do. I wish that he would just explain himself in plain language.

HRZ's quote is correct in form,

thanks to all. I got something from this, namely people (citizens) are in control of their own destiny. sadly there are many hurdles for the average joe or Jane to overcome in the legal system, but it can be done with due diligence and two willing parties!

 

[kolabok]

I wish he would just get a good attorney to deal with this.

If I could pretend to be stupid, I would hire an attorney

 

[Zigner]

If I could pretend to be stupid, I would hire an attorney

And if you don't, you are.