Rights between co-owners

[catwise]

What is the name of your state? California

I will try to make this short...

I own a piece of property with a co-owner. There were more of us but we are the last 2 living. We have always agreed to never sell and that our kids would inherit the property and all 3 would be equal owners.

Just recently, I cleaned up the deed so that only myself and the co-owner were listed. She now wants to make it so that her kid gets 50% and both my kids get 25%. Her reason for this is so that she can maintain control but she is not even in control of her own life.

I have both my kids listed in my Trust to inherit the property.

If I die before her and my kids inherit the property along with her, can she legally claim she owns a majority of the property or even worse...is her permission needed to add them to the Deed?

The property itself only cost $12,000. The pine trees died on the property. She did not have the money to help pay to remove them. There where cabins all around us so I was forced to pay $13,000 to have them removed. I have also built a small cabin on the property for $30,000.

 

[justalayman]

1. Trusts control assets of the trust. Unless the property is held by the trust or there is a mechanisms for placing it in the trust it will remain your individual property


2 is title held as tenants innl common or as joint with rights of survivorship? In fact, his was it held with the deceased tenants as well?

If held as joint tenants, each owner owns 1/2 of the property. If with rights of survivorship, the remaining tenant assumes ownership of the entire property at the death of the co-tenant.

If tenants in common; is the ownership interest held in equal shares or some other division?

 

[justalayman]

If tenants in common and shares are listed as equal or not specified (defaults to 50/50 ownership), you can do whatever you want with your 50% interest now and when you die. You can sell it now or give it to your children now or put it in the trust. At your death, if you have not established a means for it to be placed in the trust it will be distributed per your will or the laws of intestate succession. The co-tenant doesn’t appear to have any rights of inheritance (at least you’ve suggested none).

If the interest is not held equally, then your share will be dealt with as above.

Neither has a greater right of control.

Unless you have some agreement concerning the cabin, it’s simply become part of the property. It is not separately owned.


I just noticed. You said she want her child to have 50% and (I presume) each of your children to have 25% (each).

If the property is held as tenants in common and your interest goes directly to your children and her interest to her child, that is precisely how it will be divided. You own 50%. Your shares being split between your children means each would own half of that 50% which is 25% of the whole. If she allows her share (50% of the whole) to pass to her one child, that child would have 50% of the whole. You aren’t losing out on anything there.

If you split it 1/3 to each child it could become a real mess to do. If you do the 1/3 split, your family would then own more than your cotenants family (2/3 for yours and 1/3 for hers). Is there a reason she should relinquish any of her interest just to slow the 1/3 split situstion? It seems unfair to me.

 

[catwise]

I have the deed in a safe place but don't have access to it right now. I think it says my name and ETAL.

Where would I find the information where it might say Rights of Survivorship?

If it says Rights of Survivorship, and I have it in my Trust and I die, my kids go on the deed and they are equal owners with my co-owner? Am I understanding that correctly?

Thank you.

 

[justalayman]

If there are rights of survivorship it doesn’t matter what your trust says; the survivor assumes 100% ownership. That means if you die first, the other owner owns it all. If she dies first, you own it all.


A joint ownership with rights of survivorship can easily be converted to tenants in common with no rights of survivorship. The cotenant doesnt even have to be made aware of it.

Where the rights of survivorship would be is near the beginning. It should list his title is held (tenants (or tenancy) in common or joint tenants (or tenancy). Rights of survivorship would follow that. I have not checked but in some states a joint tenancy automatically includes rights of survivorship with need it be soecificed. If you have a joint tenancy say so and I’ll check on that for your state (if it isn’t mentioned in the deed)

 

[adjusterjack]

I have the deed in a safe place but don't have access to it right now.

Well, go get it.

It's a waste of time to discuss it without you having it in front of you so you can tell us exactly what it says, word for word.

Make sense?

 

[Litigator22]

What is the name of your state? California

I will try to make this short...

I own a piece of property with a co-owner. There were more of us but we are the last 2 living. We have always agreed to never sell and that our kids would inherit the property and all 3 would be equal owners.

Just recently, I cleaned up the deed so that only myself and the co-owner were listed. She now wants to make it so that her kid gets 50% and both my kids get 25%. Her reason for this is so that she can maintain control but she is not even in control of her own life.

I have both my kids listed in my Trust to inherit the property.

If I die before her and my kids inherit the property along with her, can she legally claim she owns a majority of the property or even worse...is her permission needed to add them to the Deed?

The property itself only cost $12,000. The pine trees died on the property. She did not have the money to help pay to remove them. There where cabins all around us so I was forced to pay $13,000 to have them removed. I have also built a small cabin on the property for $30,000.

What is the name of your state? California

I will try to make this short...

I own a piece of property with a co-owner. There were more of us but we are the last 2 living. We have always agreed to never sell and that our kids would inherit the property and all 3 would be equal owners.

Just recently, I cleaned up the deed so that only myself and the co-owner were listed. She now wants to make it so that her kid gets 50% and both my kids get 25%. Her reason for this is so that she can maintain control but she is not even in control of her own life.

I have both my kids listed in my Trust to inherit the property.

If I die before her and my kids inherit the property along with her, can she legally claim she owns a majority of the property or even worse...is her permission needed to add them to the Deed?

The property itself only cost $12,000. The pine trees died on the property. She did not have the money to help pay to remove them. There where cabins all around us so I was forced to pay $13,000 to have them removed. I have also built a small cabin on the property for $30,000.

 

[Litigator22]

There is no way to provide informative answers to your questions without knowing the nature of the co-ownership as being held either as tenants in common or as joint tenants with rights of survivorship. If the latter and you predecease your trust is for naught as you kids get zilch. (Which by the way seems more likely considering that there were previous others, but you two are the sole surviving owners.)

Curiously , what is this business about you having "cleaned up the deed"? What deed are you referring to and how do you purport to have cleaned it up? Once a deed is delivered and recorded their ain't no such thing as cleaning it up or dirtying it up. There are such things as a "correction deed", but that must come from the grantor and only when needed to cure a patent error in the original.

Anyway, if the property is held as tenants in common meaning an estate in cotenancy rather than a J/t/r/s, then you may have legal recourse to recover contribution from the other co-tenant/owner of her fair share of the expense incurred in removing the deceased pine trees. (Her share being comparable to her percentage of ownership.)

Also a matter of curiosity is why you would you be adding improvements to the property while seemingly confused as to the nature of your ownership rights?

 

[HRZ]

AS an aside ..the cabin next to my cabin started out with about 16 owners , JTWROS...my friends grandfather was last survivor...he got it all.

 

[catwise]

My mother and I built the cabin and then she died. The trees died the next year. The co-owner did not say anything about her intentions until 2 weeks ago.

I am using the words "cleaned up" but what I actually mean is that I took my mother's name off the deed and my ex-husbands name off the deed. I just wanted it to be as easy as possible for the kids when they inherited it. I probably should have left my ex-husbands name on it.

I am looking at an old property tax bill that was under my mother's name and followed by her name is "TR ETAL". Does that mean anything?

I should be able to go pick up the deed tomorrow to find out for sure what it says.

From the beginning our expectations where that when we all died the kids would get it and whichever one of them was last man standing would get it all. So I have a feeling that we may have goofed that up.

 

[Litigator22]

My mother and I built the cabin and then she died. The trees died the next year. The co-owner did not say anything about her intentions until 2 weeks ago.

I am using the words "cleaned up" but what I actually mean is that I took my mother's name off the deed and my ex-husbands name off the deed. I just wanted it to be as easy as possible for the kids when they inherited it. I probably should have left my ex-husbands name on it.

I am looking at an old property tax bill that was under my mother's name and followed by her name is "TR ETAL". Does that mean anything?

I should be able to go pick up the deed tomorrow to find out for sure what it says.

From the beginning our expectations where that when we all died the kids would get it and whichever one of them was last man standing would get it all. So I have a feeling that we may have goofed that up.

 

[justalayman]

The tax bill won’t cut it. The deed needs to be reviewed.

It sounds like you intended for it to be joint tenants wros (with rights of survivorship). That means the last man standing gets all the marbles. From your last comments I’m not sure you’re happy with that any longer.


I’m not sure what, if anything you did to “clean up” the deed. In reality you can’t change an existing deed. You can take actions on the title, such as registering death certificates or other documents that affect ownership. Title is an intangible entity. To determine ownership one researches the chain of title and follows it through all transfers (deeds primarily) and claims and figures out who owns it.

So, since you can’t take a person’s name off a deed, what did you really do?

 

[catwise]

Ok, thanks Justalayman....I guess I am using the wrong terminology. My name was put on a piece of paper showing me as owner and the co-owners name did not show, so I assumed that her name was somewhere else showing as a joint owner. I have been calling it a deed but it must be a title.

 

[HRZ]

GO make sure you have a copy of the current deed and post exactly how the names appear...with fake names of course .

Especially for much older holding, pre Prop 13 I'd be darn careful not to mess up a grandfathered old assessment with unwise Title changes ..check facts first.

 

[Litigator22]

Would you please stop making the preposterous statements that you took your mother and your ex-husband's names "off of the deed" to the subject property?!

Or assuming that they were once shown as deeded owners of the property that you unilaterally caused either person to be removed as recordowners of the subject property. It is literally impossible! But since you obviously believe that it is so, why did you stop with mom and the ex and not remove your co-owner as well who you think may give your heirs some trouble?