[OR] Filing for Custody after ex files ERO in KY (After living there one day)

[Blitz_Fire123]

Oregon

Super Long Post incoming:

Cliff Notes Background:
Father (me) filed last Tuesday for restraining order granting temporary custody of children in Oregon. Denied because I couldn't show I was in fear of immediate physical harm (even though Mother had a weapon and made threats to use it.) Mother driving across country after I caught her cheating and I told her I was filing for custody and for her to get out. Our two small toddlers are with her. Mother's father flys out from NKY, picks her and kids up, and drives across country. Flash forward to Friday. After repeated attempts to serve her with status quo ORDER and custody petition from Oregon she walks down to local police department, files for restraining order granting her temporary custody of kids, and is given it. She was in KY for less than 24 hours and the alleged "incident" happened in Oregon over 5 days ago (On Sunday). I get served yesterday by my local sheriff and told to give up any firearms (I don't have any). Court hearing set for THURSDAY (4 days from not) in KENTUCKY.

My question is this:

Can I and should I file in Kentucky a Motion for Change of Venue? This seems this incident, the evidence, and any potential witness all reside in Oregon and I would feel it is appropriate to have it here where everyone lived for the last 8 Months (Mother, Father, & Children all in same household). Or should I just go to the trial (on Thursday), absorbing significant cost to myself and without any of the evidence to bring with me?

Thoughts? I met with a lawyer in Oregon on Friday, meeting with them again on Monday to update her on what happened over weekend. Should I start looking for a KY attorney as well?

Longer Version (More Details):

My situation is as follows:

• Unmarried father of two toddlers, three and two years old. Paternity established by signed affidavit. Children, father, and mother living in same house hold for last 8 months in Oregon.
• Mother applies to position at father of Mother (Children’s Grandfather) company at which he is a senior management member on 08-06-18.
• Mother verbally attacks Father while drunk on 08-10-18.
• Mother commits adultery on 08-10-18 (online dating website profile created, messages exchanged).
• Father discovers adultery and confronts Mother about discovery on 08-12-18. Argument ensues. Mother throws things at Father. Mother threatens father with immediate physical harm with a weapon (wooden panel). Father alerts Mother he is filing for custody.
• Father of Mother (Children’s grandfather) flies from Cincinnati to Portland and picks up Mother and Children on 08-13-18. Father returns from work and finds Children and Mother gone.
• Mother, Grandfather, and Children currently driving across United States towards Northern Kentucky (Grandfather’s home). They arrive on 08-17-18.
• Mother left cellphone at previous residence in Oregon and all attempted contact to Mother and Children unsuccessful.
• Have filed and are preparing to serve a petition for child custody. Unsucessful as of 08-19-18 as no one answers door at home.
• Have filed and been granted from judge for a temporary status quo order regarding child custody. Document is being prepared for serving to respondent.
• Filed, had hearing, and was rejected for emergency restraining order against Mother for alcohol-induced verbal abuse and threats of physical harm with weapon. Emergency restraining order included temporary emergency custody of both children.

 

[LdiJ]

Oregon

Super Long Post incoming:

Cliff Notes Background:
Father (me) filed last Tuesday for restraining order granting temporary custody of children in Oregon. Denied because I couldn't show I was in fear of immediate physical harm (even though Mother had a weapon and made threats to use it.) Mother driving across country after I caught her cheating and I told her I was filing for custody and for her to get out. Our two small toddlers are with her. Mother's father flys out from NKY, picks her and kids up, and drives across country. Flash forward to Friday. After repeated attempts to serve her with status quo ORDER and custody petition from Oregon she walks down to local police department, files for restraining order granting her temporary custody of kids, and is given it. She was in KY for less than 24 hours and the alleged "incident" happened in Oregon over 5 days ago (On Sunday). I get served yesterday by my local sheriff and told to give up any firearms (I don't have any). Court hearing set for THURSDAY (4 days from not) in KENTUCKY.

My question is this:

Can I and should I file in Kentucky a Motion for Change of Venue? This seems this incident, the evidence, and any potential witness all reside in Oregon and I would feel it is appropriate to have it here where everyone lived for the last 8 Months (Mother, Father, & Children all in same household). Or should I just go to the trial (on Thursday), absorbing significant cost to myself and without any of the evidence to bring with me?

Thoughts? I met with a lawyer in Oregon on Friday, meeting with them again on Monday to update her on what happened over weekend. Should I start looking for a KY attorney as well?

Longer Version (More Details):

My situation is as follows:

• Unmarried father of two toddlers, three and two years old. Paternity established by signed affidavit. Children, father, and mother living in same house hold for last 8 months in Oregon.
• Mother applies to position at father of Mother (Children’s Grandfather) company at which he is a senior management member on 08-06-18.
• Mother verbally attacks Father while drunk on 08-10-18.
• Mother commits adultery on 08-10-18 (online dating website profile created, messages exchanged).
• Father discovers adultery and confronts Mother about discovery on 08-12-18. Argument ensues. Mother throws things at Father. Mother threatens father with immediate physical harm with a weapon (wooden panel). Father alerts Mother he is filing for custody.
• Father of Mother (Children’s grandfather) flies from Cincinnati to Portland and picks up Mother and Children on 08-13-18. Father returns from work and finds Children and Mother gone.
• Mother, Grandfather, and Children currently driving across United States towards Northern Kentucky (Grandfather’s home). They arrive on 08-17-18.
• Mother left cellphone at previous residence in Oregon and all attempted contact to Mother and Children unsuccessful.
• Have filed and are preparing to serve a petition for child custody. Unsucessful as of 08-19-18 as no one answers door at home.
• Have filed and been granted from judge for a temporary status quo order regarding child custody. Document is being prepared for serving to respondent.
• Filed, had hearing, and was rejected for emergency restraining order against Mother for alcohol-induced verbal abuse and threats of physical harm with weapon. Emergency restraining order included temporary emergency custody of both children.

Since you are not married to mother, mother cannot commit adultery. That is a legal definition that cannot exist in your case.

Where did you live prior to moving to Oregon?

If you do not either show up to the KY hearing to challenge KY having jurisdiction, or hire an attorney in KY to challenge KY's jurisdiction, you will lose by default. The same can be said for mom not showing up for Oregon court appearances but the children are IN KY, so its more important for you to show there.

 

[CJane]

Exchanging messages online wouldn't rise to the level of adultery, even if you WERE married. Since you're not, it's unfortunate and maybe classless, but it's not adultery.

And, since Mom was no longer even in the same state as you when you filed the RO, it couldn't be issued. Restraining orders are meant to protect a person from IMMEDIATE harm. And if she's across the country... well. There's no immediate harm.

You have to respond IN KENTUCKY, and ask that the RO be determined on its merits SEPARATE from the custody issue.

 

[Blitz_Fire123]

Since you are not married to mother, mother cannot commit adultery. That is a legal definition that cannot exist in your case.

Where did you live prior to moving to Oregon?

If you do not either show up to the KY hearing to challenge KY having jurisdiction, or hire an attorney in KY to challenge KY's jurisdiction, you will lose by default. The same can be said for mom not showing up for Oregon court appearances but the children are IN KY, so its more important for you to show there.

We all lived in kentucky from 07/01/2016 to 01/01/2018. We all lived in oregon since 01/01/2018. As far as challenging the jurisdiction goes, UCCJEA has a clause (article 2, section 204) that KY can have temporary jurisdiction as long as it’s due to an ERO. The issue is that even though a case filing was done no permanent custody order exists as of her ERO. Which means after Thursday if she is granted the ERO permanently that KY becomes the child’s new home state.

 

[Blitz_Fire123]

Exchanging messages online wouldn't rise to the level of adultery, even if you WERE married. Since you're not, it's unfortunate and maybe classless, but it's not adultery.

And, since Mom was no longer even in the same state as you when you filed the RO, it couldn't be issued. Restraining orders are meant to protect a person from IMMEDIATE harm. And if she's across the country... well. There's no immediate harm.

You have to respond IN KENTUCKY, and ask that the RO be determined on its merits SEPARATE from the custody issue.

I don’t understand then, how was her restraining order filed and accepted? I’m in Oregon, and haven’t gone to KY. By the same logic, hers should also not be granted?

 

[LdiJ]

I don’t understand then, how was her restraining order filed and accepted? I’m in Oregon, and haven’t gone to KY. By the same logic, hers should also not be granted?

It should not, but if you don't show to challenge it, it could be granted.

 

[BeachbumW]

Ok I’m going to be as clear as I can. First you need to know there is a thing called a UCCJEA act pertaining to custody and which state has the right to hear the case. Basically it’s going to define home state, that is the state that has been the child’s home the previous six months. Any motion filed in KY should be dismissed if your children have resided in OR for longer than the last 6 months.

You at the very least need to make sure you have filed for custody, sounds like you have if you’ve filed motions. If you haven’t file ASAP if you want OR to be your home state, if you wait KY will become the home state. The UCCJEA act is actually meant to protect you from exactly what your ex is doing, it’s meant to protect the best interest of the children and to prevent an escaping ex to find a more convenient forum. You’re probably going to need a lawyer, and a dang good one too. If any prospective lawyer you seek can’t tell you what the UCCJEA act state pertaining to your case don’t use that lawyer. Surprisingly there are many that don’t know what this is.

The KY matters shouldn’t be allowed under the act, again get a lawyer to find out how to adress this, ignore it, file letting it know it’s the wrong forum, etc. I can’t tell you what to do. Be very careful though if you ex can convince a court that you are harassing her, or a potential threat the “home state” may not apply and can be moved. Your ex screwed your over but don’t guilt her, harass her maintain your poise. Only necessary contact don’t even ask her why she did what she did. If she’s already getting a restraining order she may be playing the system and trying to get KY to hear the case.

Perhaps it’s time to file another emergency motion as your ex has fled state and is trying to relocate the forum. Again I’d probably not DIY in a matter this complex now that two states are involved. Trust me been there done that, and you need legal counsel, and counsel that specializes in interstate custody matters. Again if any lawyer you have a consultation with is blurt on the UCCJEA don’t use them. In fact start reading the UCCJEA yourself in the meantime so you know enough to know whether the lawyer knows what their talking about.

 

[BeachbumW]

When I say you need to file I’m saying you should file on OR asap. Have something well underway while OR is still considered the home state.

 

[Blitz_Fire123]

Ok I’m going to be as clear as I can. First you need to know there is a thing called a UCCJEA act pertaining to custody and which state has the right to hear the case. Basically it’s going to define home state, that is the state that has been the child’s home the previous six months. Any motion filed in KY should be dismissed if your children have resided in OR for longer than the last 6 months.

You at the very least need to make sure you have filed for custody, sounds like you have if you’ve filed motions. If you haven’t file ASAP if you want OR to be your home state, if you wait KY will become the home state. The UCCJEA act is actually meant to protect you from exactly what your ex is doing, it’s meant to protect the best interest of the children and to prevent an escaping ex to find a more convenient forum. You’re probably going to need a lawyer, and a dang good one too. If any prospective lawyer you seek can’t tell you what the UCCJEA act state pertaining to your case don’t use that lawyer. Surprisingly there are many that don’t know what this is.

The KY matters shouldn’t be allowed under the act, again get a lawyer

Ok I’m going to be as clear as I can. First you need to know there is a thing called a UCCJEA act pertaining to custody and which state has the right to hear the case. Basically it’s going to define home state, that is the state that has been the child’s home the previous six months. Any motion filed in KY should be dismissed if your children have resided in OR for longer than the last 6 months.

You at the very least need to make sure you have filed for custody, sounds like you have if you’ve filed motions. If you haven’t file ASAP if you want OR to be your home state, if you wait KY will become the home state. The UCCJEA act is actually meant to protect you from exactly what your ex is doing, it’s meant to protect the best interest of the children and to prevent an escaping ex to find a more convenient forum. You’re probably going to need a lawyer, and a dang good one too. If any prospective lawyer you seek can’t tell you what the UCCJEA act state pertaining to your case don’t use that lawyer. Surprisingly there are many that don’t know what this is.

The KY matters shouldn’t be allowed under the act, again get a lawyer to find out how to adress this, ignore it, file letting it know it’s the wrong forum, etc. I can’t tell you what to do. Be very careful though if you ex can convince a court that you are harassing her, or a potential threat the “home state” may not apply and can be moved. Your ex screwed your over but don’t guilt her, harass her maintain your poise. Only necessary contact don’t even ask her why she did what she did. If she’s already getting a restraining order she may be playing the system and trying to get KY to hear the case.

Perhaps it’s time to file another emergency motion as your ex has fled state and is trying to relocate the forum. Again I’d probably not DIY in a matter this complex now that two states are involved. Trust me been there done that, and you need legal counsel, and counsel that specializes in interstate custody matters. Again if any lawyer you have a consultation with is blurt on the UCCJEA don’t use them. In fact start reading the UCCJEA yourself in the meantime so you know enough to know whether the lawyer knows what their talking about.

Ok I’m going to be as clear as I can. First you need to know there is a thing called a UCCJEA act pertaining to custody and which state has the right to hear the case. Basically it’s going to define home state, that is the state that has been the child’s home the previous six months. Any motion filed in KY should be dismissed if your children have resided in OR for longer than the last 6 months.

You at the very least need to make sure you have filed for custody, sounds like you have if you’ve filed motions. If you haven’t file ASAP if you want OR to be your home state, if you wait KY will become the home state. The UCCJEA act is actually meant to protect you from exactly what your ex is doing, it’s meant to protect the best interest of the children and to prevent an escaping ex to find a more convenient forum. You’re probably going to need a lawyer, and a dang good one too. If any prospective lawyer you seek can’t tell you what the UCCJEA act state pertaining to your case don’t use that lawyer. Surprisingly there are many that don’t know what this is.

The KY matters shouldn’t be allowed under the act, again get a lawyer to find out how to adress this, ignore it, file letting it know it’s the wrong forum, etc. I can’t tell you what to do. Be very careful though if you ex can convince a court that you are harassing her, or a potential threat the “home state” may not apply and can be moved. Your ex screwed your over but don’t guilt her, harass her maintain your poise. Only necessary contact don’t even ask her why she did what she did. If she’s already getting a restraining order she may be playing the system and trying to get KY to hear the case.

Perhaps it’s time to file another emergency motion as your ex has fled state and is trying to relocate the forum. Again I’d probably not DIY in a matter this complex now that two states are involved. Trust me been there done that, and you need legal counsel, and counsel that specializes in interstate custody matters. Again if any lawyer you have a consultation with is blurt on the UCCJEA don’t use them. In fact start reading the UCCJEA yourself in the meantime so you know enough to know whether the lawyer knows what their talking about.

to find out how to adress this, ignore it, file letting it know it’s the wrong forum, etc. I can’t tell you what to do. Be very careful though if you ex can convince a court that you are harassing her, or a potential threat the “home state” may not apply and can be moved. Your ex screwed your over but don’t guilt her, harass her maintain your poise. Only necessary contact don’t even ask her why she did what

Perhaps it’s time to file another emergency motion as your ex has fled state and is trying to relocate the forum. Again I’d probably not DIY in a matter this complex now that two states are involved. Trust me been there done that, and you need legal counsel, and counsel that specializes in interstate custody matters. Again if any lawyer you have a consultation with is blurt on the UCCJEA don’t use them. In fact start reading the UCCJEA yourself in the meantime so you know enough to know whether the lawyer knows what their talking about.

You mention filing another emergency motion? What motion? In what state? I already have an ex parte status quo order for OR. Something similar in OR again?

And to confirm I had filed for custody the day she left (last Monday) in OR.

 

[Blitz_Fire123]

When I say you need to file I’m saying you should file on OR asap. Have something well underway while OR is still considered the home state.

This is to confirm that I had filed for custody in OR before she left

 

[BeachbumW]

In further thoughts I’d probably get a lawyer

You mention filing another emergency motion? What motion? In what state? I already have an ex parte status quo order for OR. Something similar in OR again?

And to confirm I had filed for custody the day she left (last Monday) in OR.

In your initial motion did you file as she’s a flight risk? Possibly talk to a lawyer and see if you have a new case for an emergency now that she’s fled the home state with the kids and potentially filing motions in another forum. Are you capable of taking full short term custody? Work, daycare etc. won’t get in the way of you being able to do so. File everything in OR it’s the home state, from what I understand. Before she took the kids to KY how long had they lived in OR? This is where I’d say you’d need a lawyer, you may not be able to dismiss the restraining order in KY but see how are you able how you can defend yourself even if by notarized letter. I wouldn’t hesitate to contact the KY judge or court administrators on the restraining order and ask how you can defend yourself without appearing and let them know why. Point out the obvious, you’re not located in KY the accusations don’t come from KY, in the middle of a custody case etc. Anything custody related should be filed in OR while it’s the home state.

You may have to go through proceeding to be recognized as the father since you were never married. In fact in my state MN even though I signed the recognition I had no rights as a father until court hearing recognized those rights, and established me as the father.

Like I said I’d get a lawyer. I get it they’re expensive but if you allow the forum(court) to move to KY in the long run would you be defenseless there? If so how much will that cost over the next 15 years of support and lost custody?

Your ex made this more complex than a DIY by leaving state in my opinion. Seems she’s also not going to be the cooperative or reasonable type either. Even though you want closure on the potential infedelity don’t seek it or hound her for it, don’t do anything that can be seen as accessive contact.

 

[Blitz_Fire123]

All four of us (ex, me, and children) lived in oregon for 8 months before this happened. We all live in KY before 01/01/2018 for over a year.

In the initial filing I did not label or file as her being a flight risk but during my own restraining order hearing I let the judge know she was fleeing the state. She then suggested I file for an ex parte status quo order.

I am capable of taking full time custody. Children were pulled from daycare/preschool the day she left and my job has been very understanding of this whole matter. I will contact my attorney here in Oregon and ask about filing for a new case and then I will ask the KY courts about defending myself non-locally (through noterized letter or otherwise.)
Thanks!

 

[stealth2]

Dude - you need to respond to the KY filing on the basis of KY not having jurisdiction over the children. For that, you honestly need a lawyer in KY as stated before.

 

[Blitz_Fire123]

Dude - you need to respond to the KY filing on the basis of KY not having jurisdiction over the children. For that, you honestly need a lawyer in KY as stated before.

I do have a KY lawyer working on This. He wasn’t kind enough to go over the details with me yesterday (Sunday).

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

I do have a KY lawyer working on This. He wasn’t kind enough to go over the details with me yesterday (Sunday).

Then why did you right this 8 minutes ago.

I will ask the KY courts about defending myself non-locally (through noterized letter or otherwise.)