Knifey-spoony (Simpsons)

[Whoops2u]

What is the name of your state? CA

In another thread, /u/quincy posted a case on knife definitions in the state and I have a question. I have a "tactical" pen I carry around with me all the time. It is the size of a thick but normal pen, has a Fisher Space Pen refill, and is made of machined aluminium with a pointed tip to break glass on one end and a knurled ridge "DNA collector" on the other.

I could certainly stab someone with it.

16470.
As used in this part, “dirk” or “dagger” means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not prohibited by Section 21510, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position.

While I usually keep it in my shirt pocket, if the shirt is not well made (The pen is heavy and can make the pocket sag too much.) or if I don't have a shirt pocket, I'll slip it into my front pocket. Is that a crime?

 

[quincy]

You can go to the following site to see what is legal to carry in California: https://kniferights.org

Here is a link to the California Supreme Court case you are referring to (The People v. Emmanuel Castillolopez):
https://kniferights.org/CA_S218861.pdf

And here is a link to the law:
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=17235

 

[xylene]

All about context. My car dealer had a pen like take for signing documents. It's innocuous and innocent enough.

I would maybe not carry that while committing a crime (like trespassing etc.), carrying illegal drugs or contraband or patronizing or visiting a place of ill repute.

Otherwise seems fine.

 

[quincy]

The law details what size blade is allowable.

 

[Whoops2u]

The law mentions the blade allowable. It also includes "or other instrument" where the dictionary definition of "blade" is not relevant.

 

[FlyingRon]

I'm confused as to what you're getting at. A glass breaker isn't a "stabbing weapon" any more than a regular pen is.

 

[Whoops2u]

I'm confused as to what you're getting at. A glass breaker isn't a "stabbing weapon" any more than a regular pen is.

Exactly.

Why isn't a regular pen considered a stabbing weapon?

Edited to add, the tactical pen can be said to be designed for...using great force on a small point of the attacker--and write upside down.

 

[xylene]

I really don't think you are going to get a solid law answer on this until there is a tactical pen case law in California.

In NY they would be blurring the line with the marital arts weapon illegallity as well potentially, but kubotans are also poorly settled law too.

The legal advice is play it cool because being a weapons law test case is not fun or cheap.

And I mean getting arrested are you really going to want to try to play the "Officer that's a defensive tactical pen weapon with a glass breaker."

Lots of cops carry these pens or similar 'compliance tools' themselves too. I've seen one that was like a handcuff key, but it would have also been a effective locking, striking and stabbing tool.

 

[quincy]

You can have it checked out to see if it violates the knife law. From what you have said, it does not appear to.

 

[xylene]

You can have it checked out to see if it violates the knife law. From what you have said, it does not appear to.

True, but there is no amount of checking a law that is going to necessarily stop a cop from arresting you or adding weapons charges for having a sharp and substantial billet of metal with a case hardened tip and a gouging tip just because it incorporates a space pen refill.

 

[quincy]

True, but there is no amount of checking a law that is going to necessarily stop a cop from arresting you or adding weapons charges for having a sharp and substantial billet of metal with a case hardened tip and a gouging tip just because it incorporates a space pen refill.

Right. An arrest is always possible. That is what happened to the fellow in the thread that Whoops originally posted to. Whoops would be smart not to violate any other laws while carrying the pen.

 

[Whoops2u]

Well, one more reason to not trust or talk to the police. Usually its because qualified immunity lets them get away with just about anything they like. Now, they don't even need to be protected by the judicial invention if the legislature writes laws so poorly. When they are so vague I'm thinking the Great State of California is not really being well served by our legislature.

Now, on to straws! I got the good ones right here under my coat. Paper, with stripes--the bendy ones my man. Name your price.

 

[xylene]

Also an FYI - the TSA will treat you like an international arms smuggler (more or less) if they find these in your carry-on or person.

In fact TSA seizure lots are a great way to buy these for super cheap.

 

[Whoops2u]

TSA is the worst. I had a money clip that had a blade, file and scissors could come out. The blade was less than 1.5 inches and well within the legal standards of the time. (The standards have since changed.)

But, you're going to argue with them?

 

[quincy]

You can argue with them. Won't do you any good, though, and it is not the smartest thing you can do.