Apples Aren't Oranges

[Ray1963]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Washington. This just happened to me. I had my boss call me into a private meeting with two other managers and dress me down in front of them. Accusing me of doing bad things, fraudulent things. I work for the ballet and a patron asked if she could get seven seats for her friends for an upcoming ballet she was going to see. She wanted to get the same price that she had paid, which was $40 per ticket. I told her we may be able to match that, but that it may also cost more than that, I wasn't sure as I couldn't get into the system to look at the seating. I took all of the relevant information down and told her a second time that we may be able to get it for the price she wants but that it may also end up costing her more and that we'd call her if that was the case. She said, "okay, just call me back if it's going to be more." After we called back and left a message on her answering machine she calls us back and starts complaining that I told her I could get the additional tickets for $40 and that's what she should be charged not more. We have something called a Hall Pass which are three blank tickets that can be used for any show by any person. I thought it was $99 per package when in fact it's $160 per package. I didn't tell the patron that that would be the way she could get her individual tickets because I'm in fundraising and its my job to get the patron's info and give it to my manager so she can give it to the marketing team and they can sell it. I don't receive any money for that so there's no reason for me to lie about anything. My manager contends that I should have told the patron about the Hall Passes and that's what I did wrong in this situation. I contend that its not my responsibility to do that. I haven't done Marketing since September and I'm not up with the changes in pricing and seating and shows that's going on, so it would be remiss of me to give out information that could be wrong and potentially upset a customer by doing that. We have a Fairytale Package that has a special of $99 going on now which I confused with the Hall Pass. The people who do Marketing get their numbers wrong about pricing all the time. My manager in those cases says to call back the patron and correct the price or if it's not that much of a difference don't worry about it. That's for people who can log into the system under Marketing and see the pricing. I can't. Does she honestly think it'd be appropriate for me to be giving out information when they themselves are getting it wrong and I haven't seen any of the prices since September? I'm writing to upper management and complaining that I was wrongfully harassed by her statements that I did bad, fraudulent things, and wrongfully suspended as my boss did not follow the company protocol in giving me a verbal warning, which is followed by a written warning and then suspension. My boss says she was advised by her account manager to do that. Her account manager doesn't work for DCM the company that employs my manager, so this is an excuse to try and absolve her of incompetence. I'm asking upper management to fire my manager for incompetence and severe violations of company policy and procedure. How do you see this? Am I right or wrong?

 

[xylene]

You need to find a new job.

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Washington. This just happened to me. I had my boss call me into a private meeting with two other managers and dress me down in front of them. Accusing me of doing bad things, fraudulent things. I work for the ballet and a patron asked if she could get seven seats for her friends for an upcoming ballet she was going to see. She wanted to get the same price that she had paid, which was $40 per ticket. I told her we may be able to match that, but that it may also cost more than that, I wasn't sure as I couldn't get into the system to look at the seating. I took all of the relevant information down and told her a second time that we may be able to get it for the price she wants but that it may also end up costing her more and that we'd call her if that was the case. She said, "okay, just call me back if it's going to be more." After we called back and left a message on her answering machine she calls us back and starts complaining that I told her I could get the additional tickets for $40 and that's what she should be charged not more. We have something called a Hall Pass which are three blank tickets that can be used for any show by any person. I thought it was $99 per package when in fact it's $160 per package. I didn't tell the patron that that would be the way she could get her individual tickets because I'm in fundraising and its my job to get the patron's info and give it to my manager so she can give it to the marketing team and they can sell it. I don't receive any money for that so there's no reason for me to lie about anything. My manager contends that I should have told the patron about the Hall Passes and that's what I did wrong in this situation. I contend that its not my responsibility to do that. I haven't done Marketing since September and I'm not up with the changes in pricing and seating and shows that's going on, so it would be remiss of me to give out information that could be wrong and potentially upset a customer by doing that. We have a Fairytale Package that has a special of $99 going on now which I confused with the Hall Pass. The people who do Marketing get their numbers wrong about pricing all the time. My manager in those cases says to call back the patron and correct the price or if it's not that much of a difference don't worry about it. That's for people who can log into the system under Marketing and see the pricing. I can't. Does she honestly think it'd be appropriate for me to be giving out information when they themselves are getting it wrong and I haven't seen any of the prices since September? I'm writing to upper management and complaining that I was wrongfully harassed by her statements that I did bad, fraudulent things, and wrongfully suspended as my boss did not follow the company protocol in giving me a verbal warning, which is followed by a written warning and then suspension. My boss says she was advised by her account manager to do that. Her account manager doesn't work for DCM the company that employs my manager, so this is an excuse to try and absolve her of incompetence. I'm asking upper management to fire my manager for incompetence and severe violations of company policy and procedure. How do you see this? Am I right or wrong?

You want to ask for someone to be fired? SERIOUSLY? That is not a smart move. You could be fired. Are you willing to risk that?

 

[Ray1963]

You want to ask for someone to be fired? SERIOUSLY? That is not a smart move. You could be fired. Are you willing to risk that?

Well, actually there are more reasons for that! My boss had sexually harrassed me earlier this year (I couldn't prove it though because all the persons involved lied and covered for themselves) Also my boss told the Fundraising Crew to lie to the patrons and tell them there's is a $25,000 match going on when there wasn't (to boost donations). I told the rest of the fundraisers that it's wrong and fraudulent to do that but they didn't listen to me. That's happened the last two years and both times I refused to do it and counseled the other employees not to. Do you still say it's not a smart move?

 

[commentator]

Lets see, you were called in and dressed down. Accused of doing bad things. Things which you argue at great length, were not wrong, and you were falsely accused. You for this reason want the boss fired. You for some reason believe this is going to happen if you write your letter. I do not see anything that would force your employer to fire your boss based on anything you have written here. What do you think would go on if you wrote a letter? It sounds as though your issue with sexual harassment earlier has been resolved by the company (though perhaps not to your satisfaction.)

When your job is not going to suit you, when you are treated unfairly by management, accused of something you did not do, asked to do something that is not in your regular job description, etc. you can, in the absence of a union contract, react in two ways. You can either do it, or not, and complain if you want to, but the choice to keep you or fire you will be made by the employer greatly based on what you do. Writing a letter to complain to higher ups when no labor law violations are occurring is not wise at all, as it may lead to your being put out of this job before you have found another one to replace it with, which is really the wisest course of action you can take if you don't like how you are being treated or what is going on.

 

[Ray1963]

Lets see, you were called in and dressed down. Accused of doing bad things. Things which you argue at great length, were not wrong, and you were falsely accused. You for this reason want the boss fired. You for some reason believe this is going to happen if you write your letter. I do not see anything that would force your employer to fire your boss based on anything you have written here. What do you think would go on if you wrote a letter? It sounds as though your issue with sexual harassment earlier has been resolved by the company (though perhaps not to your satisfaction.)

When your job is not going to suit you, when you are treated unfairly by management, accused of something you did not do, asked to do something that is not in your regular job description, etc. you can, in the absence of a union contract, react in two ways. You can either do it, or not, and complain if you want to, but the choice to keep you or fire you will be made by the employer greatly based on what you do. Writing a letter to complain to higher ups when no labor law violations are occurring is not wise at all, as it may lead to your being put out of this job before you have found another one to replace it with, which is really the wisest course of action you can take if you don't like how you are being treated or what is going on.

It's interesting that you passed up on the fraud my manager has committed against the public. If someone asked me for a $2,000 donation because it's going to be matched and end up being $4,000 and greatly help out the arts organization I love so much, I would be more than irate that I was lied to as a scam to get me to give money. What she did in legal terms is fraud, lying to get money, and is punishable in a court of law. Please explain how this isn't the case.

 

[commentator]

May be the case. However, after you helpfully report her, you can very much still be fired. This isn't whistleblower protection type situation. You were asked to lie about the fundraising, for the last two years, refused to do so, and were not terminated. So why now do you think your letter will get her fired? If you're going to call in the "investigative news team" from your local tv station or something and tell them about this fraud that's being perpetrated, I'd make REALLY sure it was happening and that you could prove so before I started throwing around the accusations. And I would also make sure I had that other job to go to next. The fact that you posted this where you did, in the Worker Injuries and Worker's Compensation section shows you're really uninformed about labor issues. There simply aren't many laws about how employers are forced to treat employees on the job.

 

[cbg]

Based on what you have posted, you were not wrongfully (illegally) harassed and you were not wrongfully (illegally) suspended. It doesn't matter whether company policy was followed or not; failing to follow company policy does not, in most cases, make an action illegal.

You are quite right; apples are not oranges. Just because you can make applesauce with an apple doesn't mean you can't make orange juice with an orange. What your boss may or may not have done is quite irrelevant to what you did. Whether they do or do not fire her for the things you report does not have any correlation to what can be done for you. They can fire you and not her; they can fire her and not you; they can fire both of you or neither of you. ANY of which would be legal.

 

[Ray1963]

Well, actually there are more reasons for that! My boss had sexually harrassed me earlier this year (I couldn't prove it though because all the persons involved lied and covered for themselves) Also my boss told the Fundraising Crew to lie to the patrons and tell them there's is a $25,000 match going on when there wasn't (to boost donations). I told the rest of the fundraisers that it's wrong and fraudulent to do that but they didn't listen to me. That's happened the last two years and both times I refused to do it and counseled the other employees not to. Do you still say it's not a smart move?

May be the case. However, after you helpfully report her, you can very much still be fired. This isn't whistleblower protection type situation. You were asked to lie about the fundraising, for the last two years, refused to do so, and were not terminated. So why now do you think your letter will get her fired? If you're going to call in the "investigative news team" from your local tv station or something and tell them about this fraud that's being perpetrated, I'd make REALLY sure it was happening and that you could prove so before I started throwing around the accusations. And I would also make sure I had that other job to go to next. The fact that you posted this where you did, in the Worker Injuries and Worker's Compensation section shows you're really uninformed about labor issues. There simply aren't many laws about how employers are forced to treat employees on the job.

I appreciate your input. There's another major reason for that request, the office is behind over $50,000 for their financial marketing goals. This happened because my manager essentially fired the best person we had on marketing who made over $130,000 for the previous season's campaign. The reason that that person was let go (that upper management doesn't know about) is that the person was constantly complaining about the noise and that it was disturbing her ability to hear the patrons on the phone and to make sales. The reason that was so is because my manager decided to put the two most talkative, disruptive persons in the room next to the two best employees in the room, myself and this other person. Essentially the best person on marketing was let go because she was a "buzz-kill." When the other employers were laughing it up, shouting, joking around and being rude, she constantly kept screaming for them to shut up so she could do her job. So my manager kept the persons who spend most of their time on the company dime not doing company work and let the person go who was the second best employee in the room who spent her time on the company dime doing company work. In fact my manager just told marketing that the cost-value of having them do the compaign is at zero. In other words the money they're making for the compaign is paying for the costs of running the compaign with no profit to the company. The company isn't very happy about this and the reason is poor management. The office is the second worst office in the company, and there are a lot of rule violations going on that help contribute to that. For example, not too long ago while I was on the phone I noticed how quiet it was in my corner. I turned around to see the three persons on their cell phones and one on an ipad, busy having fun instead of doing their job. This was at eight o'clock at night. Company policy forbids cell phones at the work stations because we're dealing with sensitive information like patron's credit card numbers. So maybe I won't ask that my manager be fired, but I'll be sure to inform them of the state of affairs going on here which I'm sure they'll be glad to be informed about. Maybe they'll promote me for being a "company player" and doing the right thing! I know if I was in upper management I'd be very thankful for someone in the trenches who can tell me why the office is failing. I appreciate your help in this. Thanks!

 

[Ray1963]

Based on what you have posted, you were not wrongfully (illegally) harassed and you were not wrongfully (illegally) suspended. It doesn't matter whether company policy was followed or not; failing to follow company policy does not, in most cases, make an action illegal.

You are quite right; apples are not oranges. Just because you can make applesauce with an apple doesn't mean you can't make orange juice with an orange. What your boss may or may not have done is quite irrelevant to what you did. Whether they do or do not fire her for the things you report does not have any correlation to what can be done for you. They can fire you and not her; they can fire her and not you; they can fire both of you or neither of you. ANY of which would be legal.

I appreciate your input on this! Thanks!

 

[cbg]

Maybe they'll promote me for being a "company player" and doing the right thing!

Maybe. And maybe they'll fire you for being a tattletale. And if they do - guess what? It will be legal.

 

[Ray1963]

When a company isn't making profits and they find out the real reason why they're not making profits so that they can make the proper adjustments needed to be making profits again, believe me, they're thankful!

 

[not2cleverRed]

When a company isn't making profits and they find out the real reason why they're not making profits so that they can make the proper adjustments needed to be making profits again, believe me, they're thankful!

Or they shoot the messenger.

That would be you.

You have made many "mistakes", which is why you are about to lose your job. Please reread why you have been told by the other seniors, because your well meaning actions are not going to get the results that you want.

 

[HighwayMan]

On top of everything else, this has no apparent link to workplace injuries or workman's comp.

 

[cbg]

I'm betting you're, at maximum, age 26.