Lemon Law on 4wd Conversion

[taaronbennett]

Hello out there! I'm looking at purchasing a new Nissan NV and plan on having a 4x4 conversion on it. I know that any modifications to the vehicle after purchase would not be covered, and may even void coverage through the lemon law. My question is about modifications performed by the dealer prior to the sale. There are 2 scenarios I am currently looking at:

(1. Dealer (Ken Garff) contracts with 3rd party (Advanced) to have the conversion done. 3rd party is authorized by manufacturer and original warranty remains intact. Modifications are covered by the 3rd party in their own warranty that matches the manufacturers.
(2. Dealer (Tim Dahle) authorized by Nissan, performs conversion using only Nissan parts and original warranty is extended to cover the conversion (no 3rd party/ additional warranty).

In the event that the vehicle is determined a lemon, what becomes of the modifications? Would either of these situations be excluded in determining the replacement value? A representative from Tim Dahle stated that past lemons brought to him included the value of other dealer added extras, though he had not seen this type of conversion come back.

 

[Zigner]

What US state?

 

[taaronbennett]

Sorry. Purchase would be in the state of Utah.

 

[Zigner]

https://dcp.utah.gov/consumerinfo/automobiles.html

If the modifications are installed prior to purchase and are included in the purchase price of the new car, then they should be covered (at least, that's this layman's view of it). You may wish to contact the Utah Division of Consumer Protection with your questions.

 

[NeilTheCop]

Be careful.
I know it's from 2017 but can't imagine it has changed much since.

Nissan new vehicle warranty

DAMAGE OR FAILURES DUE TO ALTERATION OR MODIFICATION
This warranty does not cover damage, failures or corrosion resulting from or caused by:

Alteration, tampering, or improper repair.

Installation of non-Nissan approved accessories or
components.

Improper installation of any Nissan approved after-
market accessory or component.

https://www.nissanusa.com/content/dam/Nissan/us/Nissan_Commercial_Vehicles/shopping-tools/warranty/pdfs/2017-nissan-warranty-booklet.pdf

Makes no mention of when the modifications were made, but auto manufactureres are even more slippery than attorneys where small print and interpretation is concerned.

 

[Zigner]

Be careful.
I know it's from 2017 but can't imagine it has changed much since.

Nissan new vehicle warranty

DAMAGE OR FAILURES DUE TO ALTERATION OR MODIFICATION
This warranty does not cover damage, failures or corrosion resulting from or caused by:

Alteration, tampering, or improper repair.

Installation of non-Nissan approved accessories or
components.

Improper installation of any Nissan approved after-
market accessory or component.

https://www.nissanusa.com/content/dam/Nissan/us/Nissan_Commercial_Vehicles/shopping-tools/warranty/pdfs/2017-nissan-warranty-booklet.pdf

Makes no mention of when the modifications were made, but auto manufactureres are even more slippery than attorneys where small print and interpretation is concerned.

If the Nissan dealer does the installation prior to selling the car, then it should be covered. They're what's called "dealer installed options". For example, my upgraded sound system was a "dealer installed" option but it's still covered under the manufacturer's warranty.

 

[adjusterjack]

In the event that the vehicle is determined a lemon, what becomes of the modifications? Would either of these situations be excluded in determining the replacement value?

You should read the Utah lemon law. If the manufacturer's express warranty covers those additional items, then those items would be included in the "full purchase price" addressed by the law:

http://autopedia.com/html/LemonLaw/UT_lemonlaw1.html

 

[taaronbennett]

Adjusterjack, did they make that page lemon yellow as some kind of joke? My eyes still hurt!

Well, if the items under "express warranty" are included, that should mean at the very least that Tim Dahle's modifications (option 2) would be covered.

Also, definition 2 under 13-20-2 includes the description for manufactures as "anyone who is named as the warrantor on an express written warranty on a motor vehicle." Section 13-20-4 states "manufacturer, its agent, or its authorized dealer" in regards to attempted repairs.

Ken Garff and Advanced are both authorized by Nissan, one for the sale, the other for the modifications. That should mean that it would also be covered, right?

As far as voiding the warranty, I would side with Zinger. Since those performing the installations are expressly authorized by Nissan, and it is expressed that their work will not void the original warranty, it shouldn't have any affect on that.

 

[justalayman]

If the Nissan dealer does the installation prior to selling the car, then it should be covered. They're what's called "dealer installed options". For example, my upgraded sound system was a "dealer installed" option but it's still covered under the manufacturer's warranty.

It’s a dealer modification and in the case of Ed Dahl, using Nissan parts not designed for the NV but purchased by the dealer and installed. The manufacture has nothing to do with the creation so I doubt they will be responsible for the added cost should the vehicle fall under the lemon law.

I suspect if the drivetrain is the basis for the argument it’s a lemon, I do t think the law would apply since it is not a manufacturers issue. It is a dealer’s issue.

It’s not that Nissan is authorizing the modification. It’s that Nissan is not quashing the warranty because of the modification.

I think op might want to check to see if the full warranty on the NV actually covers the added drivetrain parts or if they are warranted as any other repair would be. That would mean the warranty on the added drivetrain is not part of the oem warranty of the “vehicle” but merely a warranty of the parts the same as if I had my Nissan repaired in a dealership garage.


I suspect the situation is very similar to when yenko buikt 427 camaros in his dealership prior to being able to actually order a Camaro with a 427 from the factory in 1969. It went from a limited warranty in 1968 to a full oem warranty in 1969.

 

[NeilTheCop]

A commercial link I'm afraid, so I apologize to the moderators beforehand, but it links to what seems to be a company authorized by Nissan to perform such a conversion, and they say the warranty is preserved on all unaltered parts of the vehicle.
http://www.quigley4x4.com/Quigley-Products/Quigley-4x4-Nissan-Products/Product-Overview

 

[taaronbennett]

Thanks NeilTheCop. Quigley is one of only 3 companies I have been able to find specifically authorized by Nissan to perform the conversion. Their process is very similar to Advanced. They use other manufacturer's parts, and some of their own to complete the conversion. They contract with local dealerships and work the cost into the dealer purchase price. Tim Dahle is the only one that I have found that claims to use all Nissan parts in the conversion. All three are "authorized" by Nissan. Quigley and Advanced have their own warranty on the 4x4 parts, leaving intact the original warranty on unaltered parts. Dahle claims because of the parts used, and the approval from Nissan, their conversion is covered by the original warranty.

 

[xylene]

You should consider all this against:

Buying a vehicle with the option you want from the factory if you insist on buying new.

Buying a vehicle you have confidence of low risk of lemon-hood.

Buying a used vehicle that is already depreciated and modifying it without fear.

 

[justalayman]

A commercial link I'm afraid, so I apologize to the moderators beforehand, but it links to what seems to be a company authorized by Nissan to perform such a conversion, and they say the warranty is preserved on all unaltered parts of the vehicle.
http://www.quigley4x4.com/Quigley-Products/Quigley-4x4-Nissan-Products/Product-Overview

Yes, all unaltered parts on the vehicle. That would exclude the parts. A warranty is generally valid unless an alteration caused the issue.

If an added part cause damage to a covered part, the warranty is generally void. Example; I buy a truck. I put big (over sized) tires on it. The differential breaks. Manufacturer can argue the oversized tires caused stress beyond engineering design ands as such it wasn’t the differential that failed but it was damaged due to the additional stress caused by the over sized tires.

In this situation i could see Nissan arguing the engine and trans aren’t covered since the truck was designed as a 2 wheel drive. Adding 4 wheel drive causes additional stress on the trans and engine

Thanks NeilTheCop. Quigley is one of only 3 companies I have been able to find specifically authorized by Nissan to perform the conversion. Their process is very similar to Advanced. They use other manufacturer's parts, and some of their own to complete the conversion. They contract with local dealerships and work the cost into the dealer purchase price. Tim Dahle is the only one that I have found that claims to use all Nissan parts in the conversion. All three are "authorized" by Nissan. Quigley and Advanced have their own warranty on the 4x4 parts, leaving intact the original warranty on unaltered parts. Dahle claims because of the parts used, and the approval from Nissan, their conversion is covered by the original warranty.

i read where Dahle was installing Quigly conversings.

 

[taaronbennett]

Justalayman, I would definitely agree that unauthorized aftermarket installations would void the warranty, and thereby make it ineligible under the Lemon Law. However, all 3 versions of these modifications are expressly authorized by Nissan (meaning they know what parts are being used, how they are being installed, and approve of it). Advanced and Quigley advertise that they have worked with Nissan to ensure their modifications do not alter the original warranty. Tim Dahle explicitly states that their modifications are done on site (using Nissan parts) and are authorized by Nissan as well. There was a forum I read where someone years back was going through Tim Dahle and they said they could use the same parts used by Quigly. I would find it unlikely that they would use them directly as Dahle is in Utah, while Quigley is out in PA.

I think I'm going to follow Zinger's original advice and contact the Utah Division of Consumer Protection. Surely someone has had the issue of an expensive dealer added feature on a Lemon.

 

[justalayman]

Justalayman, I would definitely agree that unauthorized aftermarket installations would void the warranty, and thereby make it ineligible under the Lemon Law. However, all 3 versions of these modifications are expressly authorized by Nissan (meaning they know what parts are being used, how they are being installed, and approve of it). Advanced and Quigley advertise that they have worked with Nissan to ensure their modifications do not alter the original warranty. Tim Dahle explicitly states that their modifications are done on site (using Nissan parts) and are authorized by Nissan as well. There was a forum I read where someone years back was going through Tim Dahle and they said they could use the same parts used by Quigly. I would find it unlikely that they would use them directly as Dahle is in Utah, while Quigley is out in PA.

I think I'm going to follow Zinger's original advice and contact the Utah Division of Consumer Protection. Surely someone has had the issue of an expensive dealer added feature on a Lemon.

I believe you are falling for a salesman’s pitch. Regardless whether Nissan authorizes or approves of the install, it is not part of the original vehicle and as such I suspect the only warranty on the installed parts are the same as any dealer effected repair. I do not believe it will be considered part of the original vehicle and as such not covered under the new car warranty.

You are confusing manufacturer installed parts or optional items that a dealer might install and dealer installed items that are not oem optional items.




Simply put; if the 4 wheel conversion isn’t on the monroney sticker, it is probably not oem warranty covered.


As to Quigley.

Never heard of a truck? Heck, I can buy parts from China and get them shipped to my house. You don’t think Quigley would ship parts somewhere? It really doesn’t make any difference thought. I was simply passing thating aa something I had read.


But as to aftermarket parts voiding the warranty.

You are wrong. Unless the aftermarket part causes the possible warranty claim, it doesn’t affect the warranty. That’s the law.