Is there a minimum of 40 hours when working out of town

[quincy]

I may be prepared to backtrack slightly, but I want clarification from the OP on which state the employee is traveling to before I do.

Virginia to Connecticut is what was noted, and Suzanne has said in other threads that she lives in Virginia.

 

[cbg]

Connecticut has a limited reporting time rule. It is industry specific and does not apply across the board. However, because of that, depending on the industry Suzanne might be required to pay her employee for four hours of the day they do not work.

 

[quincy]

Connecticut has a limited reporting time rule. It is industry specific and does not apply across the board. However, because of that, depending on the industry Suzanne might be required to pay her employee for four hours of the day they do not work.

Why would Suzanne be following the laws of Connecticut? Employer and employee are in Virginia.

https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs22.pdf

 

[LdiJ]

LdiJ, I completely agree with you that it's a bad business practice, given this particular fact pattern. But that was not the question. The question is whether the employer is legally required to pay him. And the answer, in the first scenario, is No. The employer is not required by law to pay him. Whether ethically or morally they should do is not the question.

Ok, lets play devil's advocate for a second and look at it from a different perspective. Many people work jobs where they are "in the office" or whatever 40 hours a week even though they might not actually have anything to do during those 40 hours. An employer may not require them to be present on the job, yet not pay them if there isn't anything to do. I think we would agree with that, right?

This situation is no different than that. By sending the employee out of town they have effectively required the employee to "be at work" even if there is nothing to do. The employee is basically trapped out of town...AND trapped out of town with an employer who apparently feels its ok to arbitrarily decide whether or not they get paid, therefore whether or not they can pay their bills.

Even if somehow the employer could justify the none payment (and quite frankly, I don't see it) its incredibly stupid as a business practice. In fact, it's so stupid as a business practice that I don't think it even matters legally. This is apparently some sort of tech industry. They won't stay in business without good people and they won't keep good people, with that stupid of a business practice.

 

[quincy]

Virginia's labor laws are the same as those under the federal Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) and the link provided above tells how to determine hours worked and when employees should be paid.

 

[justalayman]

Ok, lets play devil's advocate for a second and look at it from a different perspective. Many people work jobs where they are "in the office" or whatever 40 hours a week even though they might not actually have anything to do during those 40 hours. An employer may not require them to be present on the job, yet not pay them if there isn't anything to do. I think we would agree with that, right?

This situation is no different than that. By sending the employee out of town they have effectively required the employee to "be at work" even if there is nothing to do. The employee is basically trapped out of town...AND trapped out of town with an employer who apparently feels its ok to arbitrarily decide whether or not they get paid, therefore whether or not they can pay their bills.

Even if somehow the employer could justify the none payment (and quite frankly, I don't see it) its incredibly stupid as a business practice. In fact, it's so stupid as a business practice that I don't think it even matters legally. This is apparently some sort of tech industry. They won't stay in business without good people and they won't keep good people, with that stupid of a business practice.

That would be engaged to wait but and I already included that. The op didn’t say anything about being “at work”. In fact op said employee if free to do whatever they want.

No, they don’t get paid merely because they are out of town. It makes little difference actually. Being out of town isn’t the same thing as being at work.

And again; best practices, morals, whatever you want to call the issue outside of the legal issues doesn’t change anythimg

 

[quincy]

That would be engaged to wait but and I already included that. The op didn’t say anything about being “at work”. In fact op said employee if free to do whatever they want.

No, they don’t get paid merely because they are out of town. It makes little difference actually. Being out of town isn’t the same thing as being at work.

And again; best practices, morals, whatever you want to call the issue outside of the legal issues doesn’t change anythimg

I disagree and the US Department of Labor seems to disagree with you.

Read the "travel away from home community" information in the DOL link provided earlier.

The out of town trip is at the direction of the employer. It is work time.

 

[justalayman]

I disagree and the US Department of Labor seems to disagree with you.

Read the "travel away from home community" information in the DOL link provided earlier.

The out of town trip is at the direction of the employer. It is work time.

That was addressing only travel time. Here is the expanded version of what that publication speaks to. Note the statement you are depending on is under the topic of travel time.

https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/wh1312.pdf


It is not addressing work time but travel time during the employees normal working hours.

As has been spoken to many times before: travel time away from your home community for work is compensable time if it coincides with the employees normal working hours, even if it is not on a normal working day. Travel time outside of the normal working hours is not compemsable time.

Here we are talking about an employee being in the remote location but not reporting to the work site. That m and there is no travel time and no work time. That is where my comment about if the emlployee wants to be paid, they need to head home as their travel time during working hours would be compemsable.

 

[quincy]

What did you want me to look at in your link? The employee must be paid at least minimum wage?

 

[xylene]

785.15 For example, a repair man is working while he waits for his employer’s customer to get the premises in readiness. The time is worktime even though the employee is allowed to leave the premises or the job site during such periods of inactivity. For example, a repair man is working while he waits for his employer’s customer to get the premises in readiness. The time is worktime even though the employee is allowed to leave the premises or the job site during such periods of inactivity. The periods during which these occur are unpredictable. They are usually of short duration. In either event the employee is unable to use the time effectively for his own purposes. It belongs to and is controlled by the employer. In all of these cases waiting is an integral part of the job.

That's pretty clear. The travel isn't even the most important part.

 

[justalayman]

What did you want me to look at in your link? The employee must be paid at least minimum wage?

Traveltime
§ 785.33 § 785.34 § 785.35 § 785.36 § 785.37
§ 785.38 § 785.39 § 785.40
§ 785.41
General.
Involuntary attendance.
Training directly related to employee’s job. Independent training.
Special situations.
Apprenticeship training.
General.
Effect of section 4 of the Portal-to-Portal Act. Home to work; ordinary situation.
Home to work in emergency situations. Home to work on special one-day assignment in another city.
Travel that is all in the day’s work.
Travel away from home community.
When private automobile is used in travel away from home community.
Work performed while traveling



Boy that doesn’t copy and paste well



§ 785.39 Travel away from home community.
Travel that keeps an employee away from home overnight is travel away from home. Travel away
from home is clearly worktime when it cuts across the employee’s workday. The employee is simply substituting travel for other duties. The time is not only hours worked on regular working days during normal working hours but also during the corresponding hours on nonworking days. Thus, if an employee regularly works from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. from Monday through Friday the travel time during these hours is worktime on Saturday and Sunday as well as on the other days. Regular meal period time is not counted. As an enforcement policy the Divisions will not consider as worktime that time spent in travel away from home outside of regular working hours as a passenger on an airplane, train, boat, bus, or automobile.



That does not say am employee must be paid his normal working hours. It speaks to travel time only. It says an employee must be paid travel time IF it is during normal working hours (regardless of whether it is a normal working day or not)

 

[justalayman]

785.15 For example, a repair man is working while he waits for his employer’s customer to get the premises in readiness. The time is worktime even though the employee is allowed to leave the premises or the job site during such periods of inactivity. For example, a repair man is working while he waits for his employer’s customer to get the premises in readiness. The time is worktime even though the employee is allowed to leave the premises or the job site during such periods of inactivity. The periods during which these occur are unpredictable. They are usually of short duration. In either event the employee is unable to use the time effectively for his own purposes. It belongs to and is controlled by the employer. In all of these cases waiting is an integral part of the job.

That's pretty clear. The travel isn't even the most important part.

That isn’t even close to the situstion at hand. That is engaged to wait time. We are not even talking about waiting to be engaged time. We are talking about


No work today. Don’t bother coming in at all.




Notice this statement from your quote:

In either event the employee is unable to use the time effectively for his own purposes. It belongs to and is controlled by the employer.



We aren’t talking about time the employer is controlling the employee let alone in any way the employee is impeded from enjoying his time off.

 

[quincy]

Traveltime
§ 785.33 § 785.34 § 785.35 § 785.36 § 785.37
§ 785.38 § 785.39 § 785.40
§ 785.41
General.
Involuntary attendance.
Training directly related to employee’s job. Independent training.
Special situations.
Apprenticeship training.
General.
Effect of section 4 of the Portal-to-Portal Act. Home to work; ordinary situation.
Home to work in emergency situations. Home to work on special one-day assignment in another city.
Travel that is all in the day’s work.
Travel away from home community.
When private automobile is used in travel away from home community.
Work performed while traveling



Boy that doesn’t copy and paste well



§ 785.39 Travel away from home community.
Travel that keeps an employee away from home overnight is travel away from home. Travel away
from home is clearly worktime when it cuts across the employee’s workday. The employee is simply substituting travel for other duties. The time is not only hours worked on regular working days during normal working hours but also during the corresponding hours on nonworking days. Thus, if an employee regularly works from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. from Monday through Friday the travel time during these hours is worktime on Saturday and Sunday as well as on the other days. Regular meal period time is not counted. As an enforcement policy the Divisions will not consider as worktime that time spent in travel away from home outside of regular working hours as a passenger on an airplane, train, boat, bus, or automobile.



That does not say am employee must be paid his normal working hours. It speaks to travel time only. It says an employee must be paid travel time IF it is during normal working hours (regardless of whether it is a normal working day or not)

That isn’t even close to the situstion at hand. That is engaged to wait time. We are not even talking about waiting to be engaged time. We are talking about


No work today. Don’t bother coming in at all.

The employee is in a different state sent there by the employer to meet with the customer. He cannot go home. He must wait on the customer.

 

[justalayman]

Sure seems clemployee who is sent out of state by his employer and must stay in that state to wait on the customer needs to be paid for his time.


The employee is in a different state sent there by the employer. He cannot go home.

Irrelevent. His time is his own.

 

[quincy]

Irrelevent. His time is his own.

No it's not. The employee is not choosing to be in Connecticut.