"Without my consent" wording in final documents when taking child out of the US

[PayrollHRGuy]

That is my exact worry. I am worried he will go there and stay there. Its not that I dont want him vacationing there and seeing his family. I love his family. He has a ton of money and is very controlling, and since he is Canadian, what is to stop him from staying there?

Canada isn't Pakistan. Their legal system and our work very well together. And even if it didn't and such authorization wasn't in the judgment, what would stop him from taking him anyway? Or if he had to notify you or get you permission what would stop him from not coming back?

 

[Just Blue]

That is my exact worry. I am worried he will go there and stay there. Its not that I dont want him vacationing there and seeing his family. I love his family. He has a ton of money and is very controlling, and since he is Canadian, what is to stop him from staying there?

As stated several times...the Hague Convention will prevent your ex from successfully keeping the child in Canada. And the kid is 11...old enough to call you and tell you where s/he is.

 

[not2cleverRed]

That is my exact worry. I am worried he will go there and stay there. Its not that I dont want him vacationing there and seeing his family. I love his family. He has a ton of money and is very controlling, and since he is Canadian, what is to stop him from staying there?

Because Canada is a Hague convention country, a US child custody court order WILL be recognized there.

If Dad does not return/make the child available to you for your parenting time, HE WILL BE IN VIOLATION OF THE COURT ORDER. You can go to court, have him found in contempt, etc., and eventually force your child returned to you. Furthermore, should Dad pull such a stunt, when the child is returned to you, you have grounds to petition for supervised visitation only for Dad.

You are going to be seen as a drama llama if you continue to be this thick skulled.

 

[cbg]

Listen. I'm a dual Canadian/American citizen myself, and I identify primarily as Canadian. But THINK about this. If he hasn't even been to Canada in 15 years or so, what makes you think he's suddenly going to abandon whatever life he has here and start all over again there? Find a new job? Place to live? It's much harder and a much bigger adjustment than you might think (ask LdiJ - she read my book on the subject - thanks again, L!) and not something he is liable to do on a whim. And you're talking here to someone who would relocate back to Canada in a heartbeat if it were practical, but I haven't been across the border in probably 20 years.

 

[Just Blue]

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/Intercountry-Adoption/Adoption-Process/understanding-the-hague-convention.html


Please read the ^ link @LehcarPpank .

 

[xylene]

I don't don't go in for people telling me "That's no big deal." even if they are a lawyer.

Perish the thought, but if I was told by my advocate not to worry about something I was concerned over I would be like

"It's a big deal to me."

How about something like:

The child can travel abroad with one parent for the purpose of travel and temporary visitation in a country subject to the Hague Convention. The child may not travel to any country which is not a signatory. The permission of both parents is required. Parent desiring foreign travel will request permission 72 hours in advance of any travel. Neither parent shall withhold permission unreasonably and only with a valid objection, such as reasonable suspicion of the intent to permanent remove the child from the US. Child's (his/her) itinerary be be provided in advance along with the foreign whereabout of the child and contact information. Appropriate parent/child contact as otherwise prescribed in the order will be maintained

 

[LehcarPpank]

Because Canada is a Hague convention country, a US child custody court order WILL be recognized there.

If Dad does not return/make the child available to you for your parenting time, HE WILL BE IN VIOLATION OF THE COURT ORDER. You can go to court, have him found in contempt, etc., and eventually force your child returned to you. Furthermore, should Dad pull such a stunt, when the child is returned to you, you have grounds to petition for supervised visitation only for Dad.

You are going to be seen as a drama llama if you continue to be this thick skulled.

Not thick skulled just concerned because of who he is. And thank you. I have been going back and forth with my lawyer for weeks and have been getting vague answers. If he wouldve just explained it like this I wouldnt have had to look for a second opinion.

 

[LehcarPpank]

I don't don't go in for people telling me "That's no big deal." even if they are a lawyer.

Perish the thought, but if I was told by my advocate not to worry about something I was concerned over I would be like

"It's a big deal to me."

How about something like:

The child can travel abroad with one parent for the purpose of travel and temporary visitation in a country subject to the Hague Convention. The child may not travel to any country which is not a signatory. The permission of both parents is required. Parent desiring foreign travel will request permission 72 hours in advance of any travel. Neither parent shall withhold permission unreasonably and only with a valid objection, such as reasonable suspicion of the intent to permanent remove the child from the US. Child's (his/her) itinerary be be provided in advance along with the foreign whereabout of the child and contact information. Appropriate parent/child contact as otherwise prescribed in the order will be maintained

This sounds perfect!

 

[Zigner]

I don't don't go in for people telling me "That's no big deal." even if they are a lawyer.

Perish the thought, but if I was told by my advocate not to worry about something I was concerned over I would be like

"It's a big deal to me."

How about something like:

The child can travel abroad with one parent for the purpose of travel and temporary visitation in a country subject to the Hague Convention. The child may not travel to any country which is not a signatory. The permission of both parents is required. Parent desiring foreign travel will request permission 72 hours in advance of any travel. Neither parent shall withhold permission unreasonably and only with a valid objection, such as reasonable suspicion of the intent to permanent remove the child from the US. Child's (his/her) itinerary be be provided in advance along with the foreign whereabout of the child and contact information. Appropriate parent/child contact as otherwise prescribed in the order will be maintained

At this point, it sounds like the OP has already been unreasonable (at some point), so dad has decided to ask the court to allow travel without permission, due to the OP's prior unreasonable withholding of permission.

 

[LehcarPpank]

At this point, it sounds like the OP has already been unreasonable (at some point), so dad has decided to ask the court to allow travel without permission, due to the OP's prior unreasonable withholding of permission.

Nope, not at all. He was an absentee father up until I served him last August. Which I did so that he would have to start parenting with me. Ive never withheld permission to do anything as nothing has ever come up that he has had to ask my permission.

 

[Zigner]

Nope, not at all. He was an absentee father up until I served him last August. Which I did so that he would have to start parenting with me. Ive never withheld permission to do anything as nothing has ever come up that he has had to ask my permission.

Fair enough.
If you are not happy with your attorney, you may wish to find a new one...

 

[LdiJ]

What does this mean? "Hague Convention and doesn't protect parents who perpetrate parental kidnapping" He has an expired passport. From what I am reading if I agree to the "without my consent" he wont have to get my signature to update his passport.

It would have to specifically state that he can get a passport without your signature. If you sign an agreement that says that, then he will not need your permission to get a passport.

The Hague Convention is an international treaty that determines jurisdiction for child custody cases. For example, the father and your mutual child would have to live in Canada for two full years, without you taking any action to get your son back, before a Canadian court would take jurisdiction and make any orders regarding your child. Canada would honor the court orders made in the US regarding your child up until that point, and the US would be the country of your child's official residency until then.

However, I did not ask a question that I should have asked previously, is your ex a green card holder or naturalized US citizen? If he has been here for 14 years without a green card then you absolutely should NOT sign an agreement allowing him to take the child there or get a passport without your consent. The possibility that your ex won't be able to come back to the US if he goes to Canada is very real.

 

[Zigner]

The possibility that your ex won't be able to come back to the US if he goes to Canada is very real.

Other than the expense of a trip to Canada to pick up the child, who cares?

ETA: Heck, even if he can't get back, he could still put kiddo on a plane...

 

[stealth2]

My ex was also from another country (though a US citizen by the time we divorced) and a control freak. Yes, I was nervous when he took them overseas, but, being realistic, I knew he had a profession here and was unlikely to not return. Pick the battles & hills to die on.

 

[t74]

We are in AZ. He hasnt traveled to CA since we met over 15 years ago. Which is why I find it so odd he wants this in the final docs. I always wondered that maybe he never went back to CA because he has had immigration issues many years before we met. He was in the US working at one point and got sent back to CA. Also, HE is the controlling one and wants to pretend I dont exist and doesnt want to stoop to having to get my consent to go anywhere. Just my guess...

Who is the "controlling" one? It is NOT dad. Dad has every right to be annoyed at you!