Nursing home debt

[MissDebbie]

My deceased mother's nursing home is suing me and my dad for her back balance. However, it was only in her name. I was her POA. I also never signed a financial agreement. I am a low income senior, with a part-time job that pays very little. My dad is on social security. When I saw the certified letter today, I panicked and refused to sign for it. Now I'm so worried. Is there a way to prove my dad and I are judgment proof as opposed to having to go to court. I live in CA, my dad lives in PA and the hearing would be there. I don't have the money to fly back there for a hearing. Please help!

 

[Taxing Matters]

My deceased mother's nursing home is suing me and my dad for her back balance. However, it was only in her name. I was her POA. I also never signed a financial agreement. I am a low income senior, with a part-time job that pays very little. My dad is on social security. When I saw the certified letter today, I panicked and refused to sign for it. Now I'm so worried. Is there a way to prove my dad and I are judgment proof as opposed to having to go to court. I live in CA, my dad lives in PA and the hearing would be there. I don't have the money to fly back there for a hearing. Please help!

You gain nothing by refusing to sign for the certified letter. And you miss getting information you might need. Being "judgment proof" simply means you have no assets or income that is not exempt from attachment. It does not prevent the creditor from getting the judgment, though. You may have defenses for lack of jurisdiction and/or no responsibility for the debt. Have you tried contacting the nursing home and asking why it thinks you owe anything for her bills?

 

[Dandy Don]

Most certified mail notices show the name of the person or company who sent it. Does this notice show the name of the person or company who sent it and is that name recognizable to you? You have nothing to lose by signing for this item--in fact it may turn out to be very important information for you to have. You will need to know who you are filing your response to, whether you are filing it with a court or directly with the company.

Did your mother leave a last will and testament that is going to be (or is currently being) probated in probate court? If there is an estate, the nursing home may be interested in filing a claim with the estate so that they can make a request to be paid for this bill. If there is no estate, you can inform them of that fact and then they will have no interest in pursuing the matter any further.

You can stop being fearful, as there is no way that you could ever be held personally responsible for this debt and you will never face garnishment.
The POA expired the moment that your mother's death happened. Probably the only reason they contacted you is because they figured you are the only person who has enough financial information about your mother's estate to know whether or not there was enough money left in her estate for the bill to paid.

 

[MissDebbie]

My mother had no will, and no estate or assets solely in her name. My father continues to live in their house that is about 125 yrs. old and falling down around him. His mortgage is currently about half of the value of the house, which if sold "as is" would only sell for about $60,000. I can't get him to move, as he is also nearing death, and wants to stay in the house he shared with my mother. He a Vietnam vet, on full time oxygen and has early onset dementia, and various other conditions. I'm his POA as well. I did notify the nursing home of these facts, and yes, I regret refusing the certified letter. It caught me off guard and I wasn't sure what to do in the moment. I literally turned around to go back out to ask the mailman to allow me to sign for it, but he was gone. Would I just be able to call the court in PA and ask if there is a case pending on the docket between the myself and the nursing home? At least if I know there is a hearing, I would be able to supply information about our circumstances and perhaps a copy of the letter I wrote to the nursing home explaining all of this in great detail. Or perhaps I could ask for a continuance until I'm back in PA in July to inter my mother's ashes into my grandmother's grave. There wasn't even an insurance policy and my daughters did a Gofundme to help us cremate my mother. This nursing home is the reason she's gone. They knew she needed emergency care and failed to transport her to the hospital until very late in the day. She had been pleading to go. The didn't call me to notify me until she was so weak she couldn't fight the sepsis that began shutting down her organs. I had direct communication from her nurse who was an eye witness, and told me she knew my mom was in trouble and that the CRNP and the doctor would not allow her to arrange transport to the hospital, which was only two blocks away. All those hours counted and by the time the nurse privately called me, and I insisted on urgent transport to the hospital, she was too weak to respond to the treatment in ICU. She suffered another 5 days and died just after midnight on her birthday. I don't have the money for an attorney, but I really want justice on my mother's behalf. She was my best friend, and I just want to be able to mourn her in peace. This whole ordeal with the nursing home, which included their harassment, threats and bullying has only increased the stress for us.

 

[bcr229]

The post office will hold the certified letter for a few days before sending it back so you should be able to pick it up there when they open tomorrow.

When your mother went into the nursing home did you sign anything?

 

[commentator]

If your mother was in PA and you were in CA, you were not really in any sense overseeing anything related to her care. That's when family members usually want to jump in and sue the nursing home claiming that the home "is responsible for her death," even though she was ill and elderly and had no one really checking up on her care or following through with it. I agree, you need to hit the post office as soon as possible when it opens on Monday and see it they still have the letter to you, proceed from there. I would suspect at least one trip back to their place of residence is in order. It doesn't sound as if your father is in much better shape, he should very likely be in care of some kind, perhaps that's something you should be following through with when and if you go to PA to attend to her affairs.

 

[quincy]

Pennsylvania has a "filial responsibility" law that can be used by health care facilities to collect from the children the debts of their deceased resident-parents.

23 Pa. CSA 4603:
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=23&div=0&chpt=46
Here are two cases out of Pennsylvania, the first from 2012 and the second from 2015.

Health Care & Retirement Corporation v. Pittas:
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/pa-superior-court/1607095.html
Eori. D. v. Eori, R.:
https://law.justia.com/cases/Pennsylvania/superior-court/2015/1342-wda-2014.html
Despite what was said earlier by one of the forum members, you potentially can, in fact, be held personally responsible for the unpaid bills of your mother.

 

[LdiJ]

Pennsylvania has a "filial responsibility" law that can be used by health care facilities to collect from the children the debts of their deceased resident-parents.

23 Pa. CSA 4603:
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=23&div=0&chpt=46
Here are two cases out of Pennsylvania, the first from 2012 and the second from 2015.

Health Care & Retirement Corporation v. Pittas:
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/pa-superior-court/1607095.html
Eori. D. v. Eori, R.:
https://law.justia.com/cases/Pennsylvania/superior-court/2015/1342-wda-2014.html
Despite what was said earlier by one of the forum members, you potentially can, in fact, be held personally responsible for the unpaid bills of your mother.

I question whether PA would have jurisdiction over a CA resident for this kind of matter.

 

[quincy]

I question whether PA would have jurisdiction over a CA resident for this kind of matter.

Read the cases I linked. MissDebbie has connection to the state and had POA for her mother.

Although I understand money is a concern, MissDebbie should see about getting an (elder law) attorney in Pennsylvania. There are exceptions to filial responsibility, one of which is an inability to pay due to low income.

 

[LdiJ]

Read the cases I linked.

I read them both and neither of them address that issue. In a child support case, for example, the child support agency in PA could initiate a child support order but the laws of CA would apply in actually setting the order. Therefore it makes sense that that a filial support order would have to follow the same procedure.

If CA does not have a similar filial support law then how could PA take jurisdiction over a CA resident?

What I also found interesting about those cases is how different they are. In the second case an order was made that is very similar to a child support order. The adult child was ordered to pay 400.00 a month towards his mother's care. That one seemed fair and logical to me since the mother was living with her other adult child.

In the first case the adult child was ordered to pay his mother's nursing home debt, because his mother had left the country and was declared indigent as a result. That one seemed patently unfair.

 

[quincy]

Here is Melmark, Inc. v. Schult, an April 2019 Pennsylvania Supreme Court decision on a Pennsylvania care facility resident with New Jersey family (son, parents, filial responsibility, choice of law): https://law.justia.com/cases/pennsylvania/supreme-court/2019/78-map-2017.html

California has a filial responsibility law.

 

[adjusterjack]

I saw the certified letter

A certified letter doesn't necessarily mean you are being sued. It's generally not the way process service is done for lawsuits unless it's through a small claims court that allows service by certified mail. It could be just a demand letter.

If it does turn out to be a summons and complaint, at least you'll know for sure and can figure out what to do next. Avoiding it doesn't stop the inevitable.

I agree with others. Go get it. Not knowing is worse than knowing.

Would I just be able to call the court in PA and ask if there is a case pending on the docket between the myself and the nursing home?

You can and you should.

At least if I know there is a hearing, I would be able to supply information about our circumstances and perhaps a copy of the letter I wrote to the nursing home explaining all of this in great detail.

That won't do you any good. It's not how lawsuits work. If you are sued you have to respond properly or appear.

Or perhaps I could ask for a continuance until I'm back in PA

Again, if you receive a summons and complaint you could include that request in your response if appropriate. Might not be appropriate if you have to file a written answer before a hearing is scheduled.

This nursing home is the reason she's gone.

If that's really the case you should have engaged a malpractice attorney. If you aren't willing to do that then "justice" for your mother isn't going to happen. Malpractice attorney's generally work on a contingency.

 

[quincy]

Although you might want to seek legal assistance in California, here is a link to free or low lcost legal services in Pennsylvania:
https://www.palawhelp.org/issues/elder-law
Nursing care facilities generally will not sue to collect outstanding balances unless several attempts by the facilities to contact responsible parties and collect on the amounts owing have been ignored.

A rapid response to the certified letter, therefore, could prevent a lawsuit (if the letter is in fact a demand letter and not notification of a suit already filed).

Good luck.

 

[MissDebbie]

I was able to get a hold of the certified letter regarding my deceased mother's nursing home balance. Thankfully, it was not a court summons. I was her POA for only about 6 mos. before her passing. I never signed any financial agreement. During those 6 mos. I made payments for her patient pay and toward her back balance of approx. $6000 out of her Social Security checks. She no longer receives those checks, and neither my father or myself have the financial ability to pay this balance. There was no will, I'm not her executrix, she had no assets solely in her name. My parents still owed over $30,000 on a home worth about $60,000 at this point in time. Their mortgage was being collected by a collection agency. Can they still hold us liable? We had to raise money through a Gofundme of friends and family members just to cremate and inter her ashes into my grandmother's grave. Please help as all of this is really stressing us out. I live in CA and work part-time at a school, making only $13,000 a year. My father is on Social Security. My mother died as a direct result of neglect, and therefore I wouldn't want to pay them even if I could! About a week before her death she was up with a walker. Due to their neglectful care, she developed a UTI which led to sepsis, and when the infection became severe, and her system was shutting down, she begged to go to the hospital. They delayed her transport the entire day. By the time she was admitted, and was in ICU, she was then too weak to respond to the antibiotics and steroids. I understand that the back balance, and the neglect issue are separate situations, but I really need help as I clearly can't afford an attorney to help me with either situation. I appreciate any advice. Thank you.

 

[MissDebbie]

Additionally, my amazing mom sadly suffered for 5 days before passing. She died on her 79th birthday. My family and I are heartbroken. My mom was my best friend and confidant, and I've been in a severe depression since losing her. If you know of any resources that can help us in the Harrisburg, PA area, please let us know. Thank you again.