Custodial Parent unemployed deliberately

[Bookert13]

I don’t mind paying CS. Been paying it like clockwork. Last modification was in 2014, and ex wife was imputed at min wage due to being out of work for some back pains. Even after getting a medical asst certification for job potential, which she was imputed again at min wage for the duration of school. In 2017, she received an additional diploma from a tech college for Health Information technology. All while being unemployed. She claims to still not be employed due to same back pains, and claims there is no SSDI or LTD payout. Fast forward and I am looking at a possible modification due to 1 child of 3 graduating from HS. She still claims to be unemployed. Will a judge still impute at minumum wage even if she obviously has no plans of working whether valid or not, and yet keeps getting additional education. Is it worth going for a modification since her min wage may raise the monthly obligation since I’ve received a raise since 2014. Even with one child dropping off, it may even go up. But how long does a judge keep allowing non employment for whatever reason. Thank you.

 

[stealth2]

There are variables, including the relevant state.

 

[Bookert13]

There are variables, including the relevant state.

Georgia

 

[LdiJ]

I don’t mind paying CS. Been paying it like clockwork. Last modification was in 2014, and ex wife was imputed at min wage due to being out of work for some back pains. Even after getting a medical asst certification for job potential, which she was imputed again at min wage for the duration of school. In 2017, she received an additional diploma from a tech college for Health Information technology. All while being unemployed. She claims to still not be employed due to same back pains, and claims there is no SSDI or LTD payout. Fast forward and I am looking at a possible modification due to 1 child of 3 graduating from HS. She still claims to be unemployed. Will a judge still impute at minumum wage even if she obviously has no plans of working whether valid or not, and yet keeps getting additional education. Is it worth going for a modification since her min wage may raise the monthly obligation since I’ve received a raise since 2014. Even with one child dropping off, it may even go up. But how long does a judge keep allowing non employment for whatever reason. Thank you.

Judges rarely impute more than minimum wage if someone does not have a history of earning more than that. You can argue the fact in court, and maybe prevail, but its possible that it could cost you more to argue it in court, than you would save in CS over the remaining amount of time that you would have to pay CS. None of the education that you mentioned would result in a high paying career.

If you are truly concerned that a modification might result in you paying more CS than you are paying now, even with one child aging out. Then you might want to google an online child support calculator for the state with jurisdiction and run some numbers.

 

[Bookert13]

Judges rarely impute more than minimum wage if someone does not have a history of earning more than that. You can argue the fact in court, and maybe prevail, but its possible that it could cost you more to argue it in court, than you would save in CS over the remaining amount of time that you would have to pay CS. None of the education that you mentioned would result in a high paying career.

If you are truly concerned that a modification might result in you paying more CS than you are paying now, even with one child aging out. Then you might want to google an online child support calculator for the state with jurisdiction and run some numbers.

I have done the calculator many times, and have manipulated different possibilities. Of course any rise in her income helps offset my contribution. Even if it’s not by much, it does lower my payment. Like you said, which I’m afraid I just needed to hear, I may be better off leaving things as they are even with one child aging out. I just find it so hard to swallow that she can keep pursuing different paths-school for which im sure she gets grants to help With living costs, and yet not be held accountable to find employment. Her certificates attained may not be high paying jobs but still definitely higher than $7.25. Going rate in this area is 12-18/hour for an MA or a medical billing clerk. If I chose to be unemployed, would the judge impute me at minimum as well?? Probably not. Just venting at the injustice.

 

[stealth2]

If you want the judge to look at what she *could* earn with her qualifications, then you need to provide documentation of job openings, likely wages, etc. S/he isn't going to do that legwork - it's on you.

 

[Bookert13]

If you want the judge to look at what she *could* earn with her qualifications, then you need to provide documentation of job openings, likely wages, etc. S/he isn't going to do that legwork - it's on you.

Great idea, I usually am Pro Se in court with the many many years that I have been going through this. That is a great idea. Her back hurting and keeping her from working won’t be valid enough as justification to her not even seeking out employment?

I wonder before going thru the costs of court. What’s a good method to find out if maybe she is working. Mind you,I always just go by her word. She has alienated children from my new family so we don’t see them and she keeps her life very private— so for all I know she’s working. How else could she support her household, possibly welfare for sure.

 

[cbg]

Is she trained to be an MA or a medical billing clerk?

 

[Bookert13]

Is she trained to be an MA or a medical billing clerk?

Both, she was unemployed for 2 years from 2009-2011 for a Medical Assitant diploma. She Worked from 2011-2015 making about 12/hr for one obgyn office. In Nov 2015 she left work with claims of chronic back pain that left her unable to work. At this time, she was imputed for minimum wage and supposedly never returned to work. But I saw through mutual friends another “graduation” event in 2017 and after some digging through tech school Postings in her area confirmed that she had returned to school for Health information technology. So it’s been 2 years since that graduation. Why would she get more degrees/diplomas just to stay home. And from those degrees, I can only assume the jobs she qualifies for.

 

[LdiJ]

Both, she was unemployed for 2 years from 2009-2011 for a Medical Assitant diploma. She Worked from 2011-2015 making about 12/hr for one obgyn office. In Nov 2015 she left work with claims of chronic back pain that left her unable to work. At this time, she was imputed for minimum wage and supposedly never returned to work. But I saw through mutual friends another “graduation” event in 2017 and after some digging through tech school Postings in her area confirmed that she had returned to school for Health information technology. So it’s been 2 years since that graduation. Why would she get more degrees/diplomas just to stay home. And from those degrees, I can only assume the jobs she qualifies for.

Ok, so it appears that the most she has earned is $12.00 an hour. If you run the numbers at $12.00 an hour how much of a difference does that make in your child support, and how much longer do you have until all of the children age out?

I have to say however, that as someone who suffers from significant back pain, it can really be quite debilitating. Each person is different. In my case, I cannot walk for any significant distance (unless I am holding on to a grocery cart, I can do laps around Walmart if I have a cart to rest my weight on) or stand for more than a couple of minutes. However, I have no problem handling my job because it requires no more than token walking or standing.

I don't think that your odds are very high of convincing a judge to impute a higher income to her on a pro se basis. So you honestly would need to weigh the cost of an attorney vs how much you might actual save over the remaining years of child support.

 

[cbg]

I'd also like to point out that even applying for jobs is not the same as getting jobs.

 

[commentator]

It sounds to me as though your ex has wandered into the world of "we need to find these people something to do" in regard to retraining. This is the land where they want to put work requirements on all public assistance, and force everyone to have a job, when many times, the jobs just are not there and if they were, the people just aren't the quality of employee they need.

And if there are jobs available, they aren't well paying jobs that require a great deal of training. And people who already have bad backs, or other types of work restrictions are not the most in demand anyway. But we go on and provide training regardless. And those types of training IN NO WAY guarantee that you'll find a better or well paying job even after you've done what was asked of you and gone through the trainings.

Medical assistant (read nurse's aide) is a really hard demanding low-level job that first and foremost: 1.) makes it highly likely you'll hurt your back doing the everyday tasks required on this job and 2.) makes it real hard for you to find another position especially in the better (better paying) facilities once you HAVE any sort of record of back troubles or past back injuries. It appears your wife worked at this job after her first training for about five years. That's plenty of time to hurt your back badly, and as I said, it's almost an inevitable outcome of this type of job, certainly a daily hazard.

So yes, it is quite believable that she has had the training she's had and is still unable to find something. Medical coding jobs are like reindeer. They do exist, but really, only the eight who come out on Christmas really have a steady job. Lots of people would love to do medical coding jobs from home, mostly sitting down and the training sounds very attractive. But in reality, there are not many of these jobs, and it is not easy after the training to find a placement in the field.

In fact, in our area, the department of labor soon stopped paying for people to attend those kinds of training, as we were basically dumping training money down a black hole, where the people were paid minimum wage as long as they were in school training to do these jobs, but then when they were ready to go into private employment as a ....well, medical coding specialist for example, the promised jobs were not there. All six of them were already filled unless you wanted to load up and move your family to Bolivia to work (fluent knowledge of Spanish required).

So don't assume this all comes down to your ex-wife being a deadbeat co-parent. Don't be bitter or think you have been in some way taken advantage of. Kudos to you for having paid your child support, and I would bet from the sound of things she has struggled to keep things afloat even with your paying it regularly. Even if you don't like her, you've done right by your children and that's what counts.

Judges are very used to seeing very marginally employed people as both sets of parents, and will probably not think she's the special exceptional deadbeat mom unless she really acts out or speaks out inappropriately in court. They're much more likely to believe her story (they've seen and heard it all before so often) about how she has not been able to find much in the way of well paying jobs.

Please, do not waste your time worrying or be bitter about whether or not your ex wife has "done her part" or really done all she could've done not to need your child support or something. You have apparently moved on and I hope you do well, as well as your children who are now "aging out" of the need for your support.

 

[stealth2]

I'd also like to point out that even applying for jobs is not the same as getting jobs.

Also a good point. If OP were able to prove that Mom has new qualifications AND that there were a plethora of suitable openings, Mom would likely be given the opportunity to provide "her" side of things - that she had been applying/didn't get offers, that she is physically unable to actually perform the job, etc. OP would most likely have to show that Mom had offers, but didn't *want* to take a job so as to keep living it large off CS (*).

(*) Honestly it's a myth that CS is enough to - solely - support X children and 1 adult. in an extravagant manner.

 

[Bookert13]

Also a good point. If OP were able to prove that Mom has new qualifications AND that there were a plethora of suitable openings, Mom would likely be given the opportunity to provide "her" side of things - that she had been applying/didn't get offers, that she is physically unable to actually perform the job, etc. OP would most likely have to show that Mom had offers, but didn't *want* to take a job so as to keep living it large off CS (*).

(*) Honestly it's a myth that CS is enough to - solely - support X children and 1 adult. in an extravagant manner.

Good point of view, which brings me back to wonder... how does she survive on just CS? Could there be LTD or SSDI that Is not being factored in?
Previous employment had an open return to work offer, and at an OBGYN, not really sure what the tasks involve that don’t allow for the occasional break. And even with that open door, why pursue a different field?

 

[Just Blue]

Good point of view, which brings me back to wonder... how does she survive on just CS? Could there be LTD or SSDI that Is not being factored in?
Previous employment had an open return to work offer, and at an OBGYN, not really sure what the tasks involve that don’t allow for the occasional break. And even with that open door, why pursue a different field?

How much are you paying in support?