Tenant balance sheets. Are these legal?

[lisashomeoffice]

Idaho
I moved to this apartment complex from CA in 2011. I am a senior citizen (70 yrs. old) & have section 8 housing which was transferred here from CA. In May of 2017 a new property management company took over & things that I never experienced with other landlords happened. The first month they were in operation they started sending out "tenant balance sheets." In all of the years of renting, this was the first I have ever heard of this. Every month the property management sent these out with a balance sheet loaded with costs with everything from maintenance costs to rental cost issues. Some of these costs did not even apply to my situation. I did not know what to do with these costs, so I contacted the Housing representative & informed her about this. She contacted the property management company and managed to get some of these costs removed from the tenant balance sheets. After that, the housing rep said that she was told that she could no longer get involved with disputes between the tenant and the property management. She said that she was told she needed to remain neutral in these matters and not take sides. The property managers continued to send these sheets out for about a year without explaining to us (tenants) how or when they wanted us to pay them these additional costs. I did not have an understanding about these costs, so I just continued sending them only my share of the housing costs. Around March of this year, the property management stopped sending out these balance sheets. In late November, this year, they sent out balance sheets again, this time when my share of the housing rent was received and they did not get the amount they said I owed them on the balance sheet, I was served with a NOTICE TO PAY RENT OR DELIVER POSSESSION OF PROPERTY NOTICE taped on my front door. When I contacted their office by way of a faxed letter, I received a return email from them stating that even though I paid my rent share (housing) that the amount on the balance sheet carried over and that I still owed them that money which they considered "unpaid rent." Their accountant saw my "dispute" over the costs on the tenant balance sheet & sent me an email stating that he removed a few of these costs because he realized that they had made a mistake on them. I disputed all of the extra costs on the balance with what I found to be justifiable reasons. Rarely does any one at that office answer my phone calls, emails, etc. so that I can get that necessary information to answer my concerns. In the end it is the tenant that gets "punished" for making an uniformed decision that could have avoided had someone been available to answer a question. What I would like to know is what they are doing with tenant balance sheets legal? Since I have Section 8 you would think that there might be a "cap" on how much extra they can charge you. I am a 70 year old senior citizen, received Social Security & don't have extra funds to pay what is on the tenant balance sheet. If repairs were deliberate, intentional, ie, destruction of property, etc., I could understand this. Currently, my tenant balance sheet says I owe them $300.00. I really don't want to move as I have mobility issues, which would make it difficult. Thank you.

 

[Gail in Georgia]

"What I would like to know is what they are doing with tenant balance sheets legal?"

It's not unusual to notify a tenant of such things as a possible balance.

What, specifically do they indicate you owe this $300 for?

Gail

 

[Mass_Shyster]

Landlords of Section 8 housing in Idaho cannot accept payments outside the contract.

See https://section-8-housing.org/information-for-section-8-landlords-section-8-housing/

You should contact legal aid and see if they'll take a look at it for you.

 

[LdiJ]

Idaho
I moved to this apartment complex from CA in 2011. I am a senior citizen (70 yrs. old) & have section 8 housing which was transferred here from CA. In May of 2017 a new property management company took over & things that I never experienced with other landlords happened. The first month they were in operation they started sending out "tenant balance sheets." In all of the years of renting, this was the first I have ever heard of this. Every month the property management sent these out with a balance sheet loaded with costs with everything from maintenance costs to rental cost issues. Some of these costs did not even apply to my situation. I did not know what to do with these costs, so I contacted the Housing representative & informed her about this. She contacted the property management company and managed to get some of these costs removed from the tenant balance sheets. After that, the housing rep said that she was told that she could no longer get involved with disputes between the tenant and the property management. She said that she was told she needed to remain neutral in these matters and not take sides. The property managers continued to send these sheets out for about a year without explaining to us (tenants) how or when they wanted us to pay them these additional costs. I did not have an understanding about these costs, so I just continued sending them only my share of the housing costs. Around March of this year, the property management stopped sending out these balance sheets. In late November, this year, they sent out balance sheets again, this time when my share of the housing rent was received and they did not get the amount they said I owed them on the balance sheet, I was served with a NOTICE TO PAY RENT OR DELIVER POSSESSION OF PROPERTY NOTICE taped on my front door. When I contacted their office by way of a faxed letter, I received a return email from them stating that even though I paid my rent share (housing) that the amount on the balance sheet carried over and that I still owed them that money which they considered "unpaid rent." Their accountant saw my "dispute" over the costs on the tenant balance sheet & sent me an email stating that he removed a few of these costs because he realized that they had made a mistake on them. I disputed all of the extra costs on the balance with what I found to be justifiable reasons. Rarely does any one at that office answer my phone calls, emails, etc. so that I can get that necessary information to answer my concerns. In the end it is the tenant that gets "punished" for making an uniformed decision that could have avoided had someone been available to answer a question. What I would like to know is what they are doing with tenant balance sheets legal? Since I have Section 8 you would think that there might be a "cap" on how much extra they can charge you. I am a 70 year old senior citizen, received Social Security & don't have extra funds to pay what is on the tenant balance sheet. If repairs were deliberate, intentional, ie, destruction of property, etc., I could understand this. Currently, my tenant balance sheet says I owe them $300.00. I really don't want to move as I have mobility issues, which would make it difficult. Thank you.

What does your lease say about any added costs? Are added costs allowed for in your lease? I would also like to know exactly what these costs are and how much each one is.

I also have some concern about the Section 8 housing rep stating that she had to remain "neutral" and not take sides. She is there to enforce the rules and if the landlord is adding costs that are not permitted under the contract its absolutely wrong for her to stay neutral.

 

[FarmerJ]

sounds like your LL is trying to charge-collect fees outside of the housing assistance plan HAP contract. go over the head of the one who told you that she had to stay out of it to get answers.

 

[lisashomeoffice]

"What I would like to know is what they are doing with tenant balance sheets legal?"

It's not unusual to notify a tenant of such things as a possible balance.

What, specifically do they indicate you owe this $300 for?

Gail

Gail.

The items put on the balance sheet vary from maintenance to rental costs. For example, I was charged $95.00 for a locksmith fee. What happened there is that the painter came out and painted the doors one day. I had no knowledge about this. I tried to go out & take some trash out & could not open the door. I called the after hours # & they sent the locksmith out to see if it was a mechanical issue with the lock. It turned out that the door was painted during the day & the door was stuck due to the dry paint! The accountant discounted that one on the cost sheet. The others are mostly costs from what they call "late fees". Anotherwards, if they send you a balance sheet a week before your usual rent is due and the balance sheet total is $300.00 and it wasn't submitted with your rent payment, you will be served with a "notice to pay or deliver possession of property notice", even though your share of cost was paid and ON TIME! I signed a lease with them so it is possible that it is LEGAL;however, I am not sure that it legal within the Housing guidelines. Thanks for the reply.

 

[lisashomeoffice]

Landlords of Section 8 housing in Idaho cannot accept payments outside the contract.

See https://section-8-housing.org/information-for-section-8-landlords-section-8-housing/

You should contact legal aid and see if they'll take a look at it for you.

 

[lisashomeoffice]

Hi Mass Shyster,
Thanks for the link. I pulled it up & will read it through later in the eve. I contacted the legal aid here in Boise via their online help website. I know that they are probably up to the "ying yang" with cases like mine, so I will just have to wait until they can get around to it. In the meantime, I am using forums like yours to see if there might be other things I can do. Thanks for the reply.
'

 

[lisashomeoffice]

What does your lease say about any added costs? Are added costs allowed for in your lease? I would also like to know exactly what these costs are and how much each one is.

I also have some concern about the Section 8 housing rep stating that she had to remain "neutral" and not take sides. She is there to enforce the rules and if the landlord is adding costs that are not permitted under the contract its absolutely wrong for her to stay neutral.

LdiJ

I kind of wondered about the housing rep. not being able to help in any way. They should at least refer tenants to legal aid even though legal aid is swamped with other cases. Also, if these costs are not within the housing guidelines the housing reps need to be able to step in & do something. Thanks for the reply.

 

[lisashomeoffice]

sounds like your LL is trying to charge-collect fees outside of the housing assistance plan HAP contract. go over the head of the one who told you that she had to stay out of it to get answers.

Hi Farmer,
Me thinks that this is "price gouging" any way you look at it!

 

[bcr229]

You do need to find out if these added costs are addressed anywhere in your lease. Legal aid will need a copy of it as well if they're going to help you.

 

[LdiJ]

LdiJ

I kind of wondered about the housing rep. not being able to help in any way. They should at least refer tenants to legal aid even though legal aid is swamped with other cases. Also, if these costs are not within the housing guidelines the housing reps need to be able to step in & do something. Thanks for the reply.

Why won't you give us specifics about what these added costs are for? We might be able to give you more direction if you do.

 

[lisashomeoffice]

Ldij
I gave a few examples in one of the previous replies. I'll see if I can clarify this a little better. The Tenant Balance sheet for 10-01-2019 to 10-24-2019 reads as follows: 09-09-2019 Notice Delivery**the charge--$25.00__ 09-13-2019 Late Fee**charge--$120.00 __07-18-2019 Locksmith charge**$95.00__7-19-2019 Late Fee** $80.00
The Notice Delivery was posted on the door even though my rent was paid, & on time because the balance on the previous tenant balance sheet carried over that date. The Late Fee charge was because I was looking for an alternative way of paying my rent so that my WOULD BE RECEIVED on time. I could not reach anyone in the office to help me with this, so my bank/credit union sent a paper check which was accidentally sent to my house instead. I immediately forwarded it to them & it was a day or so late. I was in & out of the hospital & just wanted to set up something else in case I wasn't feeling well & forgot. That was in July. In August & Sept. my bank/credit union electronically transferred the funds for those months &the money was there ON TIME; however, they did not prefer it to be sent the way that the bank sent it. The prop. management considered the rent funds to be LATE since they had a hard time locating it for a few days. I was basically "punished" for trying to make sure the rent money would get there on time even though the prop. management did not want it transferred in that fashion. Since these prop. managers took over, I have had all kinds of problems with them. All my other landlords considered me a "model tenant"

 

[LdiJ]

Ldij
I gave a few examples in one of the previous replies. I'll see if I can clarify this a little better. The Tenant Balance sheet for 10-01-2019 to 10-24-2019 reads as follows: 09-09-2019 Notice Delivery**the charge--$25.00__ 09-13-2019 Late Fee**charge--$120.00 __07-18-2019 Locksmith charge**$95.00__7-19-2019 Late Fee** $80.00
The Notice Delivery was posted on the door even though my rent was paid, & on time because the balance on the previous tenant balance sheet carried over that date. The Late Fee charge was because I was looking for an alternative way of paying my rent so that my WOULD BE RECEIVED on time. I could not reach anyone in the office to help me with this, so my bank/credit union sent a paper check which was accidentally sent to my house instead. I immediately forwarded it to them & it was a day or so late. I was in & out of the hospital & just wanted to set up something else in case I wasn't feeling well & forgot. That was in July. In August & Sept. my bank/credit union electronically transferred the funds for those months &the money was there ON TIME; however, they did not prefer it to be sent the way that the bank sent it. The prop. management considered the rent funds to be LATE since they had a hard time locating it for a few days. I was basically "punished" for trying to make sure the rent money would get there on time even though the prop. management did not want it transferred in that fashion. Since these prop. managers took over, I have had all kinds of problems with them. All my other landlords considered me a "model tenant"

Late fees are valid if the rent was not received on time, whether that was intentional or not. What was the "notice delivery" and the "locksmith charge" about?

 

[not2cleverRed]

Late fees are valid if the rent was not received on time, whether that was intentional or not. What was the "notice delivery" and the "locksmith charge" about?

The locksmith charge was addressed in post #6. The property management had painting done, and the painter painted shut the door to OP's apt. OP called to complain that the door could not be opened.

It sounds like the "notice delivery" charge is a fee assessed for them giving you notice on your door.

If the money has been electronically transferred to the property management's bank account, but they can't figure out how to keep track of it, as happened in two months, that is not late, that is just incompetent bookkeeping. And yes, I have dealt with property management that could not keep track of such things.