Con Man / Fraud has destroyed our professional community and my career, need advice

[Scapegoated]

Wow so many responses so quickly! Thanks all!

I started with this company when I was 17. I suppose it would be more accurate to say I have 17 years and some change in the business. Our state is Utah, and the corporation is a global one with headquarters in LA. I called this guy a young guy, but he is actually a year or two older than me, and his only talent is name-dropping and taking credit for other people's work. He has no talent in this field whatsoever. I am not the only person who thinks this if you re-read my 1st post; literally every veteran in our community knows he is a fraud. These frauds are actually quite common in our industry, but they usually don't last more than a few weeks.

I am not the type of person to get envious of "younger talent", in fact I like to help foster it. I managed interns while I worked there and helped many of them start their own careers. I even reached out to a few of my top interns when I was leaving the company to offer them my former position, and before I left I advised the company as to who would be good candidates to replace me. One of my top interns actually landed the position for a while, the fraudster came after him. I honestly have no interest in working as an employee again for the company. That would be a big leap backwards for me. So this is not just some jealousy / bitterness thing. As a freelancer I am able to work in more capacities for the company than I would if I were an employee. There are numerous reasons behind this that are difficult to explain, and I am worried about getting too specific for fear that someone will read this and deduce who I am and come sue me for slander. . . With my luck lately I wouldn't be surprised if that happened.

The vast majority of people I talk to tell me the same thing, to just let it go and change careers. I have spent the last year looking into other potential careers and I cannot come up with anything. This career is literally my life. I've been completely immersed in it since I was in high school, and had aspired to work in the field since before I can remember. My entire adult life is this career. I've worked my ass off to get to where I am and have made significant sacrifices to do so. I played a large part in making this corporation as successful as it is and I have never done anything to warrant being slandered like this. I can't stand the fact that they won't even tell me what it is that I'm accused of. The injustice of it is the hardest thing and is what has been causing most of my health problems and relationship issues. I understand that people make career changes, but being forced to do so for no reason whatsoever is just not acceptable to me, and it frustrates me when people so casually tell me to stop complaining and simply "get over it". Those of us in our industry start training in childhood and devote our entire lives to our craft, and once we land careers we stay in them for life. It is extremely rare for someone who has established themselves in this industry to leave it. We aren't flipping burgers here.

I haven't just been sitting in a corner crying for a year. I still get work at other facilities around town. As I stated earlier it is not just me who is affected by this. There are hundreds of independent contractors that have made successful careers here. We get clients the world over that come to Utah to seek our expertise, and we have spent decades building up a solid, well respected reputation. It has been remarkable to watch how quickly one person can destroy that reputation, and reputation is everything in this industry.

Does this clarify the situation a bit?

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

He has no talent in this field whatsoever. I am not the only person who thinks this if you re-read my 1st post; literally every veteran in our community knows he is a fraud.

Unfortunately, the people that matter (those that write the checks) don't seem to share this belief.

 

[quincy]

Wow so many responses so quickly! Thanks all!

I started with this company when I was 17. I suppose it would be more accurate to say I have 17 years and some change in the business. Our state is Utah, and the corporation is a global one with headquarters in LA. I called this guy a young guy, but he is actually a year or two older than me, and his only talent is name-dropping and taking credit for other people's work. He has no talent in this field whatsoever. I am not the only person who thinks this if you re-read my 1st post; literally every veteran in our community knows he is a fraud. These frauds are actually quite common in our industry, but they usually don't last more than a few weeks.

I am not the type of person to get envious of "younger talent", in fact I like to help foster it. I managed interns while I worked there and helped many of them start their own careers. I even reached out to a few of my top interns when I was leaving the company to offer them my former position, and before I left I advised the company as to who would be good candidates to replace me. One of my top interns actually landed the position for a while, the fraudster came after him. I honestly have no interest in working as an employee again for the company. That would be a big leap backwards for me. So this is not just some jealousy / bitterness thing. As a freelancer I am able to work in more capacities for the company than I would if I were an employee. There are numerous reasons behind this that are difficult to explain, and I am worried about getting too specific for fear that someone will read this and deduce who I am and come sue me for slander. . . With my luck lately I wouldn't be surprised if that happened.

The vast majority of people I talk to tell me the same thing, to just let it go and change careers. I have spent the last year looking into other potential careers and I cannot come up with anything. This career is literally my life. I've been completely immersed in it since I was in high school, and had aspired to work in the field since before I can remember. My entire adult life is this career. I've worked my ass off to get to where I am and have made significant sacrifices to do so. I played a large part in making this corporation as successful as it is and I have never done anything to warrant being slandered like this. I can't stand the fact that they won't even tell me what it is that I'm accused of. The injustice of it is the hardest thing and is what has been causing most of my health problems and relationship issues. I understand that people make career changes, but being forced to do so for no reason whatsoever is just not acceptable to me, and it frustrates me when people so casually tell me to stop complaining and simply "get over it". Those of us in our industry start training in childhood and devote our entire lives to our craft, and once we land careers we stay in them for life. It is extremely rare for someone who has established themselves in this industry to leave it. We aren't flipping burgers here.

I haven't just been sitting in a corner crying for a year. I still get work at other facilities around town. As I stated earlier it is not just me who is affected by this. There are hundreds of independent contractors that have made successful careers here. We get clients the world over that come to Utah to seek our expertise, and we have spent decades building up a solid, well respected reputation. It has been remarkable to watch how quickly one person can destroy that reputation, and reputation is everything in this industry.

Does this clarify the situation a bit?

Thank you for the clarification.

I do not see that this changes your chances of mounting a successful defamation claim against either the company or the fellow hired by the company to take your place, though.

You can sit down with an attorney in Utah to discuss the specifics to better learn about potential legal options available to you.

Here for reference are the elements necessary to support a defamation claim (jury instructions):
http://utcourts.gov/utc/muji-comment/wp-content/uploads/sites/25/2016/06/MUJI-Defamation-Instructions.pdf

Utah has a one-year statute of limitations for defamation (the time within which you must file a claim). Any defamation action might now be time-barred.

 

[Zigner]

To fill my old position this large company hired some guy from LA.

No, they didn't. They hired him to fill the position left by your failed "top intern" that you recommended for the position.

One of my top interns actually landed the position for a while, the fraudster came after him.

 

[quincy]

It might be good to note here that the new employee potentially could have a defamation claim to pursue against you, Scapegoated.

Be careful what you say about him to others. Tossing around words like “fraud” is legally risky. As you said yourself, “reputation is everything in this industry.”

 

[Shadowbunny]

It has become so bad that now most people around town think its ok to just not pay me at all for my work. Some of these are people I considered good friends, and are people that I have done excellent work for for nearly 2 decades. I know some of these people are acting this way because they are afraid that they too will be banned from working. They have families to support and simply cannot afford to put their own careers in jeopardy.

What exactly is the connection between you being paid and you being usurped? Why aren't you more worried about getting paid from work you've done and less about this rock star?

I believe it was @xylene who suggested counseling. Please. Look into that. Because your obsession with how you've been wronged is not healthy, and you anger is misplaced.

 

[Scapegoated]

Quincy - Thank you so much for that info! I agree that I need to be careful, which is one reason why I am trying to avoid giving specific details. Thanks for the advice, I'll try to refrain from using terms like that to refer to him. If there is one thing I have learned from this whole mess it is to tread carefully. I thought I was doing a good job staying on his good side. I fixed his mistakes, sat by and watched as he took credit for my work, and never did anything to upset the guy. Still he wound up destroying my career.

That brings up another concern of mine, thus far I a have been given the impression that there is not much I can do. It confuses me that these people can wantonly destroy my reputation and that of my peers without just cause or risk of retribution, yet I stand at risk of being sued for using the word “fraud” in a forum post in which I haven’t named any individuals, companies, or even the specific industry in which this is happening? I’m guessing its a money thing, right? They have money and I don’t, therefore the law is on their side?

PayrollHRGuy - Yes, that is exactly the problem! There are numerous people in power who are vehemently backing this guy, and as a result the company continues to loose clients, money, and respect. Its no sweat off their back’s as they get paid the same regardless, they get to take credit for the good projects, and they have a large supply of expendable people like me and the independent contractors that they can blame for any problems. I’m aware that from what little info I have provided it appears to be a simple case of me being out performed and unwilling to admit they found someone better than me. I would appreciate for the sake of getting somewhere in this forum that we put aside that assumption, as I would have to get very specific to defend myself. Besides, I would be surprised to learn that anyone in this forum is a fellow specialist in my field and would be able to verify my case.

The response of some of the people on this forum really sums up my predicament very well. Despite complete ignorance regarding the details of the case, the consensus is that I should give up and cut my losses. If you lawyers were disbarred for no apparent reason, completely unprovoked, would you follow your own advice and merely change careers? Just sort of shrug it off and apply at your local Starbucks? I imagine you would want to defend yourselves and preserve everything you had worked so hard to accomplish.

I know I won’t be able to convince some of you that I am not just some stuck up lazy brat trying to get some free money. Thats fine, think what you will of me. If that is the case however, then lets stop worrying about me and focus on the hundreds of other lives that have been drastically damaged by this. Our community spent decades building up a globally acclaimed reputation. It’s crazy to see how easy it is for someone to destroy that reputation. All it takes is a few ruined projects. (BTW, having a project be completely ruined in this line of work is totally unheard-of. It just plain does not happen at our level of professionalism, so it is an extremely big deal.) Thats enough to send a warning out the world over saying “DO NOT GO HERE!”. Does the same advice stand for every independent contractor in our state? Is our entire industry supposed to just stop wining, throw in the towel and go apply at McDonalds? What of all of the people in the next town he decides to destroy, and the town after that?

 

[quincy]

Quincy - Thank you so much for that info! I agree that I need to be careful, which is one reason why I am trying to avoid giving specific details. Thanks for the advice, I'll try to refrain from using terms like that to refer to him. If there is one thing I have learned from this whole mess it is to tread carefully. I thought I was doing a good job staying on his good side. I fixed his mistakes, sat by and watched as he took credit for my work, and never did anything to upset the guy. Still he wound up destroying my career.

That brings up another concern of mine, thus far I a have been given the impression that there is not much I can do. It confuses me that these people can wantonly destroy my reputation and that of my peers without just cause or risk of retribution, yet I stand at risk of being sued for using the word “fraud” in a forum post in which I haven’t named any individuals, companies, or even the specific industry in which this is happening? I’m guessing its a money thing, right? They have money and I don’t, therefore the law is on their side?

PayrollHRGuy - Yes, that is exactly the problem! There are numerous people in power who are vehemently backing this guy, and as a result the company continues to loose clients, money, and respect. Its no sweat off their back’s as they get paid the same regardless, they get to take credit for the good projects, and they have a large supply of expendable people like me and the independent contractors that they can blame for any problems. I’m aware that from what little info I have provided it appears to be a simple case of me being out performed and unwilling to admit they found someone better than me. I would appreciate for the sake of getting somewhere in this forum that we put aside that assumption, as I would have to get very specific to defend myself. Besides, I would be surprised to learn that anyone in this forum is a fellow specialist in my field and would be able to verify my case.

The response of some of the people on this forum really sums up my predicament very well. Despite complete ignorance regarding the details of the case, the consensus is that I should give up and cut my losses. If you lawyers were disbarred for no apparent reason, completely unprovoked, would you follow your own advice and merely change careers? Just sort of shrug it off and apply at your local Starbucks? I imagine you would want to defend yourselves and preserve everything you had worked so hard to accomplish.

I know I won’t be able to convince some of you that I am not just some stuck up lazy brat trying to get some free money. Thats fine, think what you will of me. If that is the case however, then lets stop worrying about me and focus on the hundreds of other lives that have been drastically damaged by this. Our community spent decades building up a globally acclaimed reputation. It’s crazy to see how easy it is for someone to destroy that reputation. All it takes is a few ruined projects. (BTW, having a project be completely ruined in this line of work is totally unheard-of. It just plain does not happen at our level of professionalism, so it is an extremely big deal.) Thats enough to send a warning out the world over saying “DO NOT GO HERE!”. Does the same advice stand for every independent contractor in our state? Is our entire industry supposed to just stop wining, throw in the towel and go apply at McDonalds? What of all of the people in the next town he decides to destroy, and the town after that?

First, I think you might have misunderstood what I was saying. As an anonymous poster on an online forum, you can say someone is a fraud without risk, as long as the person you are calling a fraud is not identifiable by the content of your posts.

What you should NOT do is call the fellow a fraud to your “real life” contacts, as that potentially could lead to a defamation claim filed against you. In real life, you must be careful what you say.

I provided you with a link to defamation laws in your state - what you need to support a defamation action. But you may have waited too long to file a defamation suit in Utah. It could be possible that you have a defamation suit to file in the fellow’s current state of residence, as defamation laws and statutes of limitations vary by state.

You also need money - generally a lot of money - to pursue a defamation claim, especially if the fellow resides in a different state.

No one should have their reputation sullied or their career ruined by defamatory words spoken or written about them. If the harm suffered to one’s reputation is severe enough, a defamation suit is a legal way to address it.

You can consult with an attorney in your area to discuss your legal options.

Good luck.

 

[Scapegoated]

I agree that my obsession with being wronged is not healthy. It's extremely unhealthy. I wish I had the mental fortitude of you guys to just simply shrug all this off and move on, but I don't. I seriously question wether any of you who have suggested this would be able to either if you were in my shoes. It is a subconscious, completely uncontrollable thing. I have been to my doctor on multiple occasions and have been prescribed medications, and they are not helping.

The slander that comes from this guy is continuous, which is one reason why it is hard to just "get over". Please stop telling me to do this, I understand your intention but simply saying to "get over it" is not going to help me to "get over it", in fact it just adds fuel to the flame. The very reason I am seeking advice on this forum is due to my inability to "get over" having my life unjustly taken away from me. Thank you for repeatedly pointing out the very issue I am dealing with, but frankly your sage advice on this particular subject blows.

I would love to be able to get some counseling. Who is going to pay for it? I sure as hell can't. My parents can't. Will those of you who are so skilled at turning the other cheek pay for it perhaps? As I stated earlier, my career represents my entire life. It is what defines me as a human being. This is not some part time high school side job. This person took my life away from me.

Quincy - thank you again for providing me with some practical advice, I do appreciate that. I will read over that document and see if something comes from it. Aside from that it looks like I will have to seek help elsewhere

 

[quincy]

If you are near either Provo or Salt Lake, you could try to find legal assistance, perhaps from a kindly professor if not a law clinic, at Brigham Young’s J. Reuben Law School or the University of Utah’s S.J. Quinney College of Law.

It is hard to have lies told about you. Lies can be difficult to ignore. Sometimes the best way to handle lies and liars, though, is to show (at least outwardly) that you are unaffected by them.

People tend to have short memories. People also tend to care more about what is happening in their own lives over what is happening in the lives of others. What has been said about you should before long become just a footnote in your life story if you let it.

I know this is an unsatisfactory answer but I honestly don’t know if you have a legal action worth investing your time and money in. An attorney in your area can assess this better.

Good luck.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

PayrollHRGuy - Yes, that is exactly the problem! There are numerous people in power who are vehemently backing this guy, and as a result the company continues to loose clients, money, and respect. Its no sweat off their back’s as they get paid the same regardless, they get to take credit for the good projects, and they have a large supply of expendable people like me and the independent contractors that they can blame for any problems.

The people in power have more to lose than you do. Even if they are blaming indy contractors it is still them who hired the contractors.

The response of some of the people on this forum really sums up my predicament very well. Despite complete ignorance regarding the details of the case, the consensus is that I should give up and cut my losses.

We only know what you have told us and generally, it is safe to assume that you would present your case in the is the best possible light for yourself.

 

[quincy]

Scapegoated, the bottom line is that you will need to speak to an attorney in your area to best determine if you have any legal recourse. What you say to the attorney is privileged and confidential.

The specifics of your situation, including the real names of the entity and people involved, can be disclosed to the attorney you see in Utah without fear. You have been smart to not reveal the specifics on a public forum.

Good luck.

 

[Dandy Don]

Your deliberate vagueness about the industry you work in only confuses the situation more. Explain specifically what industry you work in, please.
Is it the casino industry and is the con artist somehow affiliated with the mafia?

Did the company pay to have a background check done on the con artist and did they deliberately choose to not believe what was reported about him and they decided to hire him anyway?

In the future when you are able to afford it YOU should pay a private investigator a few hundred dollars to do a background check on this guy.

I guess that the "complaints" about this guy are never ever resolved by human resources because they want to cover up for him because they like him better.

If you and your colleagues have not been able to specifically define and explain what mistakes this guy did on the job, it's difficult to know how to proceed against him. "Fixing" his mistakes was not the correct course of action for you to take, when you should have been pointing out those mistakes to whoever the supervisor in charge was.

You say he left the company but you provide no details about whether he resigned or whether he was fired, nor do you explain what the reason was why he left.

It seems like you have no way of knowing specifically whether it was the con artist who blacklisted you or whether it was the company (unless there is evidence in writing about the blacklisting, you have no case to pursue). As of yet, you can not prove that any specific comments he made caused you to lose a specific job. Your type of case is difficult to prove if it comes under employment law. If you think you are being spoken badly of during the reference checking process, please discuss your situation with an employment law attorney.

Why do you remain a freelancer when it seems as if you should be pursuing a more dependable means of employment (a job that pays for 40 hours per week)?

 

[quincy]

Your deliberate vagueness about the industry you work in only confuses the situation more. Explain specifically what industry you work in, please.
Is it the casino industry and is the con artist somehow affiliated with the mafia?

Did the company pay to have a background check done on the con artist and did they deliberately choose to not believe what was reported about him and they decided to hire him anyway?

In the future when you are able to afford it YOU should pay a private investigator a few hundred dollars to do a background check on this guy.

I guess that the "complaints" about this guy are never ever resolved by human resources because they want to cover up for him because they like him better.

If you and your colleagues have not been able to specifically define and explain what mistakes this guy did on the job, it's difficult to know how to proceed against him. "Fixing" his mistakes was not the correct course of action for you to take, when you should have been pointing out those mistakes to whoever the supervisor in charge was.

You say he left the company but you provide no details about whether he resigned or whether he was fired, nor do you explain what the reason was why he left.

It seems like you have no way of knowing specifically whether it was the con artist who blacklisted you or whether it was the company (unless there is evidence in writing about the blacklisting, you have no case to pursue). As of yet, you can not prove that any specific comments he made caused you to lose a specific job. Your type of case is difficult to prove if it comes under employment law. If you think you are being spoken badly of during the reference checking process, please discuss your situation with an employment law attorney.

Why do you remain a freelancer when it seems as if you should be pursuing a more dependable means of employment (a job that pays for 40 hours per week)?

Did you read where Scapegoated said he did not want to be specific?

Did you read where Scapegoated has been looking for employment?

Scapegoated said he is remaining vague so he will not be identifiable by the content of his posts.