Forced relocation - can I get unemployment?

[Elem1122]

What is the name of your state? California

I’ve been working for my employer in Los Angeles for 12.5 years. I relocated 60 miles away during a maternity leave (five years ago), and it was verbally agreed I could work from home. Upon my return, my employer rescinded that offer and I’ve been commuting 120 miles round trip ever since.
Now they decided to move five employees (one entire “department”) to an office in West Covina, 80 miles away from my home. I cannot and will not do this commute. My quality of life is bad enough driving 60 miles each way (with two small children in tow) - adding an additional 40 miles each day would be unbearable. I would be spending about 22% of my income on gas. I would have to change my daycare provider and incur additional costs due to this. Moving isn’t an option because I have a mortgage and my husband’s business is based out of our current city.

I have been applying to jobs but haven’t heard back from anywhere promising yet. At this point I may need to apply for unemployment to give myself time to secure a decent job. My employer told me verbally on January 14th that the relocation would take effect April 16th.
I have talked to my supervisor about other options- working from home, staying at my current office (which will remain open and will house different “teams” from my same company), working out of another office they have in Woodland Hills; changing “teams” and working another position - but the feedback I’ve gotten from her after she’s discussed with senior management is that they will not agree to any of these potential solutions (though I have nothing in writing at this point so I’m just taking her word for it).

My question is - what is the right way to let my employer know that I will not relocate? I do want to make sure I’ll be eligible for unemployment - I feel like I’m being forced out and do not wish to quit, but I cannot do the 160 mile daily commute. Please help!

 

[adjusterjack]

If you refuse to move and get fired, or you quit, your employer will say you refused suitable work and the burden will be on you to prove that it was not suitable. You might or might not get UI when you claim. You might have to go through the appeal process. Generally, though, distance like that is good cause.

 

[commentator]

If you want to quit, draw unemployment and find another job, DO NOT WORK ONE MINUTE AT THE NEW DISTANCE. Let the employer know that you are not able to do this. Ask them very specifically to let you continue to work as you are working now. The first thing that you'll be asked when you leave the job to file for unemployment insurance is "What did you do to try to resolve the problem before quitting?" They shouldn't be able to say they didn't know you found the job relocation unacceptable.

Yes, it will take longer, but the thing is, they have changed the job. in accepting the changes before, you made this your job, your distance, etc. Therefore, there is nothing you need to tell the unemployment system about what a hardship it was for you to change to the previous assignment and location. It will all be about the new job that you haven't accepted yet, and how you cannot do it without significant hardship. They'll want to know how far you're commuting now. They're trying to make a decision whether the new location would be "suitable work." Suitable work is significantly related to what you're doing NOW. Of course, if you're commuting 60 miles now, and your new location would require that you commute many more miles. that's not likely going to be considered "suitable."

Do make a decision whether or not you want to try to hack it. If you don't, the way to have a chance of being approved for benefits is that you deal only with the current job changes. As I said don't dwell on how hard the current job is on you, how they promised you that you could work from home and then retracted it, how hard it is to find child care (you'll be asked and will be required to say that you have adequate child care and can travel a reasonable distance based on your PAST travel) so you would need to say you want something EQUIVALENT to your current job assignment. Don't go in and tell them you only want to commute eight to ten miles to work on your next job.

Be prepared for it to take some time to start unemployment benefits, if you are approved. It will be important if you are going this route, if you are not going to try to do this commute, that you file for unemployment benefits quickly, as soon as you are no longer working. And then, eventually, if you win the appeals process, you'll be back paid for each week you have filed. But just be prepared to wait a while, have some paychecks stored up if you are going to do it.

And remember, unemployment insurance isn't a casual something you can pick up by choice if you decide to. It is paid in by the employer, and they aren't excited about your getting to draw unemployment benefits because it costs them money. You'll have to file, and there will have to be a decision made about your eligibility. And it will not be based on how inconvenient it is for you because of your personal needs, economic situation, or child care arrangements. It is based on whether it is reasonable for them to change the job assignment this much and expect you to still show up for work. What they're trying to determine is if you are out of work THROUGH NO FAULT OF YOUR OWN. They changed the job location, you didn't. Is it reasonable for them to demand you show up at the new location? Probably not. File the claim and see.

 

[Elem1122]

Is it better for my case for me to let my employer know in advance that I cannot make the new commute? S

If you want to quit, draw unemployment and find another job, DO NOT WORK ONE MINUTE AT THE NEW DISTANCE. Let the employer know that you are not able to do this. Ask them very specifically to let you continue to work as you are working now. The first thing that you'll be asked when you leave the job to file for unemployment insurance is "What did you do to try to resolve the problem before quitting?" They shouldn't be able to say they didn't know you found the job relocation unacceptable.

Yes, it will take longer, but the thing is, they have changed the job. in accepting the changes before, you made this your job, your distance, etc. Therefore, there is nothing you need to tell the unemployment system about what a hardship it was for you to change to the previous assignment and location. It will all be about the new job that you haven't accepted yet, and how you cannot do it without significant hardship. They'll want to know how far you're commuting now. They're trying to make a decision whether the new location would be "suitable work." Suitable work is significantly related to what you're doing NOW. Of course, if you're commuting 60 miles now, and your new location would require that you commute many more miles. that's not likely going to be considered "suitable."

Do make a decision whether or not you want to try to hack it. If you don't, the way to have a chance of being approved for benefits is that you deal only with the current job changes. As I said don't dwell on how hard the current job is on you, how they promised you that you could work from home and then retracted it, how hard it is to find child care (you'll be asked and will be required to say that you have adequate child care and can travel a reasonable distance based on your PAST travel) so you would need to say you want something EQUIVALENT to your current job assignment. Don't go in and tell them you only want to commute eight to ten miles to work on your next job.

Be prepared for it to take some time to start unemployment benefits, if you are approved. It will be important if you are going this route, if you are not going to try to do this commute, that you file for unemployment benefits quickly, as soon as you are no longer working. And then, eventually, if you win the appeals process, you'll be back paid for each week you have filed. But just be prepared to wait a while, have some paychecks stored up if you are going to do it.

And remember, unemployment insurance isn't a casual something you can pick up by choice if you decide to. It is paid in by the employer, and they aren't excited about your getting to draw unemployment benefits because it costs them money. You'll have to file, and there will have to be a decision made about your eligibility. And it will not be based on how inconvenient it is for you because of your personal needs, economic situation, or child care arrangements. It is based on whether it is reasonable for them to change the job assignment this much and expect you to still show up for work. What they're trying to determine is if you are out of work THROUGH NO FAULT OF YOUR OWN. They changed the job location, you didn't. Is it reasonable for them to demand you show up at the new location? Probably not. File the claim and see.

Thank you, this is extremely helpful!

 

[commentator]

Yes, let them know. If they say, "Go on, leave now!" then they are actually firing you, which is much better in unemployment insurance for you, since the choice to terminate your employment was theirs, not yours. The most important thing is that you do not go on and try to accept the new location and distance, as you did the past one, and then find, as you found, that it's awful, and that it causes you great hardship, and THEN quit the job.

If one is fired, it is not the awful thing that some people think it is. In fact, in many cases, it improves your chances of being approved for unemployment insurance.

When they fire you, the burden of proof is on the employer to demonstrate that they had a valid, misconduct reason to terminate you. Refusing to accept a transfer to another location a great distance from your home is not misconduct, you will point out, it is reasonable professional behavior. When you voluntarily quit the job, the burden of proof for unemployment purposes is on the quitter, who must show that they had a valid work related cause to quit the job.

And that the job location was changed to another place a great distance from your residence is a very good reason to quit. You need to show, as I said, that you did try to work it out with the employer before you quit, and had 'exhausted every reasonable alternative to quitting.' Keyword here is reasonable. You have already accommodated their relocation demands one time. You shouldn't reasonably be asked to do it again. You need another job, as unemployment benefits are very stop-gap and unreliable, (may or may not be approved, it will take a long time to receive money even if you are approved) but they are certainly something you should look into promptly and will have a pretty good chance of approval, if you do not ever actually work at the new site, which would be accepting the terms and location of the new job assignment and would destroy all your arguments that it isn't feasible for you.

As I said, while filing for unemployment benefits, you will of course be required to make all sorts of job searches, which is why you should not wait to file for benefits until you are sure you will not find anything else quickly. Go on and file, and then begin your diligent job search for a job closer to home.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Is it better for my case for me to let my employer know in advance that I cannot make the new commute? S

Yes you should tell them now and make it very clear that you are willing to work with them to find an alternative.

 

[xylene]

Please help!

Start looking for work now! The economy is still pretty solid.

Unemployment issues are important when facing a possible termination, BUT proactively securing another job is going to put you MUCH further ahead than unemployment ever could.

 

[commentator]

Wholeheartedly agree, but cannot tell you how many people had the idea they should 'wait until they really needed it" to file a claim for unemployment benefits. it's the old "unemployment is welfare" thought process, and people who didn't understand that it isn't would try to cowboy it out without benefits until they were really having a problem. It's all part of the process. I cannot imagine the commute distance this person is already doing, much less being asked to travel even further. They should've been looking for something closer to home for a long time!

 

[Chyvan]

BUT proactively securing another job is going to put you MUCH further ahead than unemployment ever could.

Not necessarily. She's got two small children, and probably paying a lot for daycare. Eliminate the cost of commute, take the kids out of day care, downgrade the insurance on the car because she won't be driving in rush hour traffic or as far (lower risk), firing the cleaning lady, and she might very well enjoy the same standard of living on UI as working for the next 6 months or really need the break from work on someone else's dime. Get into "approved training," and she can be on UI for a year in CA.

Then she can spend her time looking for work as close to home as is practical sticking the employer with the cost of her UI against their reserve account for doing a really stupid thing.

I was 61 when I went on UI for the last time, and trust me, I didn't want anyone calling me to offer me a job. At that point, I just wanted to collect and went through the motions week after week with the year I graduated from college in bold on my resume and online applications.

 

[davew9128]

Wholeheartedly agree, but cannot tell you how many people had the idea they should 'wait until they really needed it" to file a claim for unemployment benefits. it's the old "unemployment is welfare" thought process, and people who didn't understand that it isn't would try to cowboy it out without benefits until they were really having a problem. It's all part of the process. I cannot imagine the commute distance this person is already doing, much less being asked to travel even further. They should've been looking for something closer to home for a long time!

I think you will find that in Southern California, that there are more and more people living in the inland desert areas commuting to the coastal cities. I have worked with people living in Temecula who commute to San Diego. Thats 45 miles each way. I wouldn't do it, but I have seen many who have and from that area, driving another 15 miles north isn't that much more.