If a privately sold firearm is used in crime by buyer.....

[Subjection1]

What is the name of your state? WI

I recently sold a firearm in a face to face transaction after advertising it online. This is legal to do in the state I live in. However, I do have some post-sale concerns after how it transpired.

After I posted the ad, I got a response almost immediately by the guy who eventually made the purchase. He said he would pay me the full asking price. I thought that was kind of strange, but decided it wouldn't hurt to respond. I figured he would haggle with me after we met. That's always how it goes. But what happened when we met in a parking lot at a city park seemed too good to be true. I opened the case and removed the shotgun and placed it on the tailgate of his truck and he just took a quick look at it for just a few seconds and then said, "Ok" and put down the cash and said I could count it, which I did. I also made sure they weren't counterfeit. Even while I was counting and examining the cash, he didn't use that time to look more closely at what he was buying.

So, full payment with no haggling, and showing no real interest in the gun he was purchasing at full asking price. It seems to raise some red flags, so I just thought I'd come here and ask what the real risks are. I mean, if he were to use the gun in a crime, what would my legal responsibility be?

As for my own evidence, I turned on my smartphone to video record and then I put it in my shirt pocket just before we met, but the lens was blocked by my shirt pocket most of the time, although I got all the audio of the transaction and a clear view of the guy's face, and I also got the majority of his license plate number and a full view of his truck, FWIW. However, when I google the email the guy used to contact me, it doesn't show up anywhere. Not even on Facebook. Also, the name on his account doesn't show up in FB, or the circuit court access page, which could mean he either has no law enforcement contact history, or it's not his real name.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

You should likely be safe. When ever I sell a firearm privately I get a copy of the buyers ID. But unless he is a felon and you knew it you should be fine.

 

[Subjection1]

You should likely be safe. When ever I sell a firearm privately I get a copy of the buyers ID. But unless he is a felon and you knew it you should be fine.

I was even planning on asking the guy if he was a felon so it would be on the video recording I made, but I completely forgot. I was so nervous about doing the transaction after asking on a firearms forum about how to do it and then hearing some horror stories. My nerves got the best of me and I forgot to ask that one basic question. It would also have been nice if I had made sure the lens for the camera on my phone would get a clear view over the top of my shirt pocket before using that setup to attempt a recording.

 

[FlyingRon]

Yep, and in states where permits are pertty easy to get, we usually ask to see their permit. It means they've already been vetted by the state as to gun eligibility.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

I was even planning on asking the guy if he was a felon so it would be on the video recording I made, but I completely forgot. I was so nervous about doing the transaction after asking on a firearms forum about how to do it and then hearing some horror stories. My nerves got the best of me and I forgot to ask that one basic question. It would also have been nice if I had made sure the lens for the camera on my phone would get a clear view over the top of my shirt pocket before using that setup to attempt a recording.

I still think you are good.

ETA: I would sit down and document the information you do have on the guy and keep it forever. I keep a binder with every firearms transaction I ever made bought and sold. It is as much for insurance as it is for protecting me if some ahole leaves one of my former guns at a scene of a crime.

What kind of shotgun was it?

Yep, and in states where permits are pertty easy to get, we usually ask to see their permit. It means they've already been vetted by the state as to gun eligibility.

I don't think WI has such a permit.

 

[Subjection1]

I still think you are good.

Thank you!

ETA: I would sit down and document the information you do have on the guy and keep it forever. I keep a binder with every firearms transaction I ever made bought and sold. It is as much for insurance as it is for protecting me if some ahole leaves one of my former guns at a scene of a crime.

Oh yeah, I'll keep everything documented. I have his email address with his supposed name on it, and I have the video showing his face and almost his entire license plate number. I pointed the camera at his license plate just as I walked back to my car and for some reason cut off the first couple digits. The rest should be good enough since I also have the description of the vehicle.

What kind of shotgun was it?

It was a Remington 870 shotgun, but modified with an extended magazine, and an AR15 style stock.

I don't think WI has such a permit.

We don't. At least not for ownership. There's a permit available for carrying concealed though.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Thank you!



Oh yeah, I'll keep everything documented. I have his email address with his supposed name on it, and I have the video showing his face and almost his entire license plate number. I pointed the camera at his license plate just as I walked back to my car and for some reason cut off the first couple digits. The rest should be good enough since I also have the description of the vehicle.



It was a Remington 870 shotgun, but modified with an extended magazine, and an AR15 style stock.

Well if you hear about a shotgun slaughter nearby call the cops.

 

[Subjection1]

Well if you hear about a shotgun slaughter nearby call the cops.

If I hear about such a slaughter, I'd probably want to go into hiding. The cops would then be calling me.
Too bad it was a firearm I bought from a dealer. The serial number would be traced back to my name and address.

 

[quincy]

If I hear about such a slaughter, I'd probably want to go into hiding. The cops would then be calling me.
Too bad it was a firearm I bought from a dealer. The serial number would be traced back to my name and address.

At least the firearm can be traced back to you. You can provide information on the purchaser of your gun should the purchaser use the gun for something other than an honest purpose.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

If I hear about such a slaughter, I'd probably want to go into hiding. The cops would then be calling me.
Too bad it was a firearm I bought from a dealer. The serial number would be traced back to my name and address.

That isn't near the speedy process you see on TV cop shows. FFLs do not report the firearm sale to the ATF. The way one gets tracked is the investigating department contacts the ATF. The ATF contacts the maker to find out the distributor, who tells them the dealer who then looks through their records for they buyer.

This doesn't happen quickly or at least doesn't in any case I've ever seen.

 

[Zigner]

Does WI allow you some avenue to report the sale of the firearm? I understand there's not requirement to do so, but is there a mechanism in place to voluntarily report it?

 

[xylene]

I really don't see anything suspicious about the buyer not haggling with you. Some people are just decisive.

The vast majority of people have zero criminal history, so why that raises red flags I do not know.

You could have done better due diligence, but it honestly sounds like someone who knew what they wanted and were ready to pay for it. Gun prices and values are up.

Quite honestly in these times I would not be very amenciable to someone wasting my time haggling to complete any purchase after making an agreement to buy online.

 

[quincy]

Here is a link to the Giffords Law Center organization with a fairly comprehensive look at Wisconsin gun laws:
https://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/state-law/wisconsin/

 

[xylene]

Also, I have literally dozens of email addresses I use for different things. You would draw a blank searching on them of just about any that I would use in a transaction with a stranger.

 

[quincy]

Also, I have literally dozens of email addresses I use for different things. You would draw a blank searching on them of just about any that I would use in a transaction with a stranger.

An email address really tells you nothing. A driver’s license with a physical address is best - this if you want to better ensure that who you are selling to is who he says he is (not that driver’s licenses can’t be faked).

Subjection1 will just have to trust that the gun buyer is not a felon (or about to become one).