Traffic citation in Italy

[mister1982]

I received a letter in the mail today from Cedars Business Services based in Calabasas, CA (I live in NYC) indicating they intend to collect a debt of $450 on behalf of Comune Di Pisa, Italy. I drove a rental vehicle in Pisa, Italy last year and allegedly committed a ZTL traffic violation (i.e., driving in restricted zone). The infraction was allegedly captured via camera.

I received a bill from rental company last year seeking payment for processing the traffic citation, which I paid. However, I never received a bill from Comune Di Pisa for the alleged infraction so I didn't think much about it.

What are my options? I recall reading somewhere that U.S. debt collectors don't have legal authority to collect debts incurred in foreign countries or on behalf of foreign companies, but not sure if that's really the case. My concern, of course, is that this will impact my credit.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Zigner]

When you contacted the rental company about the matter, what did they say?

 

[mister1982]

When you contacted the rental company about the matter, what did they say?

They said I should pay the processing fee for handling the traffic citation as they would charge the credit card I used for the booking otherwise. Hence, I paid. They also mentioned sent me the following:

"With reference to the fine and according to the law, we supplied the authorities with your personal data. Please be informed that the local authorities will send you a request to pay the violation to the address reported in the rental agreement you signed and will provide you all the information you may need (fine information, how to pay or claim it). Europcar cannot pay a fine for the customer.

We inform also that the Italian Police Authority can handle and send violations after months (it's foreseen by law). We have no access to their system, we do not have a copy of the fine and we don't know when the fine will be send to you.

You have to wait to receive the official notification from the authority to pay it (nothing to do now – please be so kind to wait the Police letter and instructions).

We thank you for your kind cooperation and remain at your disposal for any further need."

 

[Zigner]

I'll try again...

When you contacted the rental company to ask why they didn't pay the fine (or for them to provide proof they did), what did they say?

 

[mister1982]

I'll try again...

When you contacted the rental company to ask why they didn't pay the fine (or for them to provide proof they did), what did they say?

Maybe it wasn't clear from my first post. In it I say:
"I received a bill from rental company last year seeking payment for processing the traffic citation, which I paid."
The bill for processing the traffic citation is not the same as paying the citation fine; it's merely to process the citation (i.e., forwarding the municipality of my contact information/personal details and sending me a letter informing me of the citation).

 

[Zigner]

Oh, in that case, it seems that you need to pay for your traffic infraction.

 

[adjusterjack]

That's pretty much the same answer you'll get on any other site that you post.

 

[quincy]

It sounds like you have to wait for official notification from the police with instructions on how to pay the fine. When you receive the instructions, you can pay the fine.

 

[Mass_Shyster]

I believe it will be difficult for a collection agency to prevail in court on this one. They will either have to prove that you committed the offense, or prove that an Italian court determined that you committed the offense and that you are responsible to pay the $450.

They could sue you in a New York court, not a California court, so the CA collection agency would have to file in NY. That would probably involve hiring a lawyer in NY, and I don't think that cost would be recoverable. On the other hand, they *could* file in CA and make you argue that the CA court doesn't have jurisdiction, but arguing that would likely cost you more than $450. Or, if they're real dirt-bag debt collectors, they could file in CA, not bother to serve you, get a default judgment, and slap it on your credit report. It will cost you more than $450 to get that removed, though I suspect California would not be too happy with the debt collector if they found out about it.

I once represented a debtor with a $800 debt. The debt collector (Some Name, LLC) filed in Small Claims court. I removed the case to the District Court, knowing that the owner/manager of the LLC could not represent the LLC in District Court, where he could in small claims. It would have cost him more than $800 to hire a lawyer. He quickly settled for a much smaller amount.

 

[mister1982]

I believe it will be difficult for a collection agency to prevail in court on this one. They will either have to prove that you committed the offense, or prove that an Italian court determined that you committed the offense and that you are responsible to pay the $450.

They could sue you in a New York court, not a California court, so the CA collection agency would have to file in NY. That would probably involve hiring a lawyer in NY, and I don't think that cost would be recoverable. On the other hand, they *could* file in CA and make you argue that the CA court doesn't have jurisdiction, but arguing that would likely cost you more than $450. Or, if they're real dirt-bag debt collectors, they could file in CA, not bother to serve you, get a default judgment, and slap it on your credit report. It will cost you more than $450 to get that removed, though I suspect California would not be too happy with the debt collector if they found out about it.

I once represented a debtor with a $800 debt. The debt collector (Some Name, LLC) filed in Small Claims court. I removed the case to the District Court, knowing that the owner/manager of the LLC could not represent the LLC in District Court, where he could in small claims. It would have cost him more than $800 to hire a lawyer. He quickly settled for a much smaller amount.

Thanks for the thoughtful response!

 

[Just Blue]

I believe it will be difficult for a collection agency to prevail in court on this one. They will either have to prove that you committed the offense, or prove that an Italian court determined that you committed the offense and that you are responsible to pay the $450.

They could sue you in a New York court, not a California court, so the CA collection agency would have to file in NY. That would probably involve hiring a lawyer in NY, and I don't think that cost would be recoverable. On the other hand, they *could* file in CA and make you argue that the CA court doesn't have jurisdiction, but arguing that would likely cost you more than $450. Or, if they're real dirt-bag debt collectors, they could file in CA, not bother to serve you, get a default judgment, and slap it on your credit report. It will cost you more than $450 to get that removed, though I suspect California would not be too happy with the debt collector if they found out about it.

I once represented a debtor with a $800 debt. The debt collector (Some Name, LLC) filed in Small Claims court. I removed the case to the District Court, knowing that the owner/manager of the LLC could not represent the LLC in District Court, where he could in small claims. It would have cost him more than $800 to hire a lawyer. He quickly settled for a much smaller amount.

I'm curious...Couldn't the LLC have hired an attorney and requested the fees as part of his judgement?

 

[quincy]

Here is a link to information on Italian traffic tickets:
https://www.bella-toscana.com/traffic-violations-in-italy/

Cedars in the U.S. is one of the collection agencies mentioned in the information provided on paying traffic fines.

 

[Zigner]

I'm curious...Couldn't the LLC have hired an attorney and requested the fees as part of his judgement?

Probably not if the agreement didn't allow for legal fees.

 

[Mass_Shyster]

I'm curious...Couldn't the LLC have hired an attorney and requested the fees as part of his judgement?

Probably, but many debtors are judgment proof, or at least extremely difficult to collect from. He also would have had to pay the attorney out of pocket and hope to collect. He could easily racked up five figures in legal fees and costs chasing $800. So if he wins, he'll get a judgment for $10,800, from someone who couldn't pay $800. He also probably figured that since the defendant and the lawyer both had the same last name, that the defendant wasn't paying the lawyer.

His business model is to pay pennies on the dollar for bad debts from the local credit union, and hope that he collects more in total than he paid for the debts. Throwing good money after bad isn't part of his business plan.

Can you tell I don't like debt collectors?

 

[Just Blue]

Can you tell I don't like debt collectors?

Nah...I totally can't tell that. You hide it really well.