Move Away cases

[Onthecusp2020]

CA - I have temporary sole custody: Steps are required to be completed before the non-custodial parent can petition for a modification. Steps have not been completed or even started. Both of our children have special needs. I have been the primary parent for 6 years. Before that, I was a stay-at-home parent. Now, I am remarried (for 2 years, in a relationship with step-parent for 5 years). I am self-employed & I work from home. My spouse has been offered the opportunity to work from home indefinitely. The non-custodial parent has 0 custody, 0 decision-making & has been ordered to supervised visitation (due to physical/emotional abuse). I also have active restraining orders on NCP. This order was made several months ago. The non-custodial parent has not seen our children in 6+ months. They do, however, have weekly telephone calls. We live in a community that is increasingly becoming less affordable, families are leaving due to lack of access to family-friendly activities, schools are closing due to low enrollment, our children's friends are moving in droves. We have no family here, aside from non-custodial parent, whom we suspect has also moved out of town. Our kids are enrolled in virtual learning, so there has been little peer interaction, especially since their closest friends have all left the area. We have 0 support in terms of babysitting, etc. Our home is nice, but smallish & we have a very small backyard. We would like to move to an area 3 hours away, in the state, to be near family (5 family members), purchase a much larger home, on a large lot with a pool, jungle gym, space to run & play. The community is larger with more resources & activities for families.

I am looking for both failure & success stories from parents that have tried to move & parents that have successfully stopped a move away.

Thank you in advance!

 

[Zigner]

CA - I have temporary sole custody: Steps are required to be completed before the non-custodial parent can petition for a modification. Steps have not been completed or even started. Both of our children have special needs. I have been the primary parent for 6 years. Before that, I was a stay-at-home parent. Now, I am remarried (for 2 years, in a relationship with step-parent for 5 years). I am self-employed & I work from home. My spouse has been offered the opportunity to work from home indefinitely. The non-custodial parent has 0 custody, 0 decision-making & has been ordered to supervised visitation (due to physical/emotional abuse). I also have active restraining orders on NCP. This order was made several months ago. The non-custodial parent has not seen our children in 6+ months. They do, however, have weekly telephone calls. We live in a community that is increasingly becoming less affordable, families are leaving due to lack of access to family-friendly activities, schools are closing due to low enrollment, our children's friends are moving in droves. We have no family here, aside from non-custodial parent, whom we suspect has also moved out of town. Our kids are enrolled in virtual learning, so there has been little peer interaction, especially since their closest friends have all left the area. We have 0 support in terms of babysitting, etc. Our home is nice, but smallish & we have a very small backyard. We would like to move to an area 3 hours away, in the state, to be near family (5 family members), purchase a much larger home, on a large lot with a pool, jungle gym, space to run & play. The community is larger with more resources & activities for families.

I am looking for both failure & success stories from parents that have tried to move & parents that have successfully stopped a move away.

Thank you in advance!

Sorry, this is not a discussion or support forum. Do you have specific questions?

 

[Onthecusp2020]

My apologies. I suppose my questions are:

1. Should I have a specific home in escrow prior to filing my motion, or can I just show the court the home we would like to purchase?
2. If NCP suddenly decides to start seeing our children as soon as I file a request to move away, do you think there is a likelihood that the judge would recognize the sudden visitation was only precipitated by my attempt to move, & not a sincere desire to repair their relationship w/ our children?
3. Given our specific circumstances, is it likely they would be able to move (the children)?
4. Is there any chance the judge would reconsider custody & award NCP custody if I file a motion to relocate?

 

[Zigner]

My apologies. I suppose my questions are:
Should I have a specific home in escrow prior to filing my motion, or can I just show the court the home we would like to purchase?

I wouldn't make any commitments until you have the legal matters squared away.

If NCP suddenly decides to start seeing our children as soon as I file a request to move away, do you think there is a likelihood that the judge would recognize the sudden visitation was only precipitated by my attempt to move, & not a sincere desire to repair their relationship w/ our children?

It's possible, but there's no way any of us can reasonably predict something like this.

Given our specific circumstances, is it likely they would be able to move (the children)?

Again, it's possible, but there's no way any of us can reasonably prediction something like this.

Is there any chance the judge would reconsider custody & award NCP custody if I file a motion to relocate?

"Any chance"? Yes. I don't know if it would be likely or not, but I'm leaning towards it being unlikely.
I suggest that you speak to a local attorney about this before making any firm plans.

 

[zddoodah]

Where are you seeking to move from and to, and where does the NCP live (approximate locations will suffice)?

Also, most importantly, what does the existing custody order say about the custodial parent moving intrastate with the child? Does it say that you need a court order or the NCP's written permission? Is it silent?

Should I have a specific home in escrow prior to filing my motion, or can I just show the court the home we would like to purchase?

If you need court approval for a move, then signing a contract for a home without such approval would be moronic unless your contract contained a contingency that voids the contract if you don't get the order. Also, the court isn't likely to care about the particular home you want to buy.

If NCP suddenly decides to start seeing our children as soon as I file a request to move away, do you think there is a likelihood that the judge would recognize the sudden visitation was only precipitated by my attempt to move, & not a sincere desire to repair their relationship w/ our children?

A likelihood -- i.e., something that is 0.0000000001% or greater? Of course there is.

Given our specific circumstances, is it likely they would be able to move (the children)?

You've provided almost nothing in the way of specifics. Also, who are "they"? I thought it was you who is seeking to move.

Is there any chance the judge would reconsider custody & award NCP custody if I file a motion to relocate?

No.

One other thing to keep in mind is that these sorts of decisions focus on what's best for the child, not the custodial parent.

 

[Onthecusp2020]

Where are you seeking to move from and to, and where does the NCP live (approximate locations will suffice)?

From a somewhat small-ish tourist community in the Bay Area to the further north (larger community, mountains, lakes, forests, etc.)

Also, most importantly, what does the existing custody order say about the custodial parent moving intrastate with the child? Does it say that you need a court order or the NCP's written permission? Is it silent?

It is silent

If you need court approval for a move, then signing a contract for a home without such approval would be moronic unless your contract contained a contingency that voids the contract if you don't get the order. Also, the court isn't likely to care about the particular home you want to buy.

I was under the impression I needed to have a very specific plan as to housing, schools, etc. I agree the logistics of obtaining housing prior to having permission to move is tricky.

A likelihood -- i.e., something that is 0.0000000001% or greater? Of course there is.

Probability, then.

You've provided almost nothing in the way of specifics. Also, who are "they"? I thought it was you who is seeking to move.

I wrote 'they' because I know I am able to move, I want to move with my children. Sometimes when people write 'can I move', others always point out that of course the parent can move, but whether or not the children can is a different story. I was trying to be more specific when I said 'they' (the children)

No.

One other thing to keep in mind is that these sorts of decisions focus on what's best for the child, not the custodial parent.

Right. Our child's therapist absolutely supports the move, esp given one of our children has ADHD/ASD & desperately needs more room to run & play & explore. The area is WAY too expensive for us to upsize locally. Support from the family would be a huge help, as well as offering them the security that comes from being surrounded by family, more resources for special needs services, more kids in the community with their specific special needs, family-friendly activities ( our community now offers nothing more than a movie theatre & bowling alley-not even a kids museum, etc. It also takes over an hour to get anywhere that offers family-friendly activities)

 

[Onthecusp2020]

Do these issues matter?
1. NCP has not seen children in 6 months.
2. NCP is ordered to supervised visits only
3. Restraining orders
4. No local family
5. NCP has left the area & will not provide location
6. Several of our children's closest friends have already left the state
7. Children are 100% virtual learning, in a new school (due to theirs being closed), & therefore they have not had an opportunity to develop new friendships or connection w/ new classmates and/or friends

 

[zddoodah]

If your existing custody order is completely silent about moving with the kids (either out of state, out of the county or further than X miles), then the presumption is that you can do it, and the onus is on the NCP to challenge the move. I'd suggest reading this case (which is factually not on point with your situation, but it discusses a lot of the basic rules and also cites to a case called Burgess, which is probably more factually relevant).

Do these issues matter?

All of the things you mentioned, except #4, are relevant to some degree or another.

I strongly suggest conferring with a local family law attorney about this and, in particular, whether you must/should give the NCP notice of your intended move.

 

[Onthecusp2020]

If your existing custody order is completely silent about moving with the kids (either out of state, out of the county or further than X miles), then the presumption is that you can do it, and the onus is on the NCP to challenge the move. I'd suggest reading this case (which is factually not on point with your situation, but it discusses a lot of the basic rules and also cites to a case called Burgess, which is probably more factually relevant).



All of the things you mentioned, except #4, are relevant to some degree or another.

I strongly suggest conferring with a local family law attorney about this and, in particular, whether you must/should give the NCP notice of your intended move.

Thank you! This case is very helpful for my purposes. There are some similarities and I am surprised I haven't heard of it before. I am consulting with an attorney, however, she doesn't have availability right now. There are very few capable attornies in our area so I am waiting for her to have time to work on our case.

 

[zddoodah]

There are very few capable attornies in our area

Well...sure...if you define "our area" narrowly. There are tons of excellent family law attorneys in the SF Bay area.

 

[Onthecusp2020]

Yes. Our area is a unique community. I tried hiring an out of town attorney once and it was a disaster. You have to be ‘in town’ and familiar with the judges, guardians ad lidem & evaluators. Well versed in how our courts operate, etc. It can be somewhat of a ‘good ole boys/woman’s club’.

 

[zddoodah]

Yes. Our area is a unique community. I tried hiring an out of town attorney once and it was a disaster. You have to be ‘in town’ and familiar with the judges, guardians ad lidem & evaluators. Well versed in how our courts operate, etc. It can be somewhat of a ‘good ole boys/woman’s club’.

Might be helpful if you at least identified your county (since courts are county-based, not "community-" based).

 

[LdiJ]

Do these issues matter?
1. NCP has not seen children in 6 months.
2. NCP is ordered to supervised visits only
3. Restraining orders
4. No local family
5. NCP has left the area & will not provide location
6. Several of our children's closest friends have already left the state
7. Children are 100% virtual learning, in a new school (due to theirs being closed), & therefore they have not had an opportunity to develop new friendships or connection w/ new classmates and/or friends

Of the items you listed, Number 1, 2, 3 and 5 are more significant than the others. If number 5 can be proven, then number 4 becomes a little more important. 6 and 7 are pretty irrelevant.

 

[not2cleverRed]

The biggest thing is: would the move impede the parent/child relationship? Will it affect parenting time?

If you notify the court and NCP of the intention to move, and Dad doesn't respond, or at least doesn't oppose it, then it's easy.

If, however, NCP comes out of the woodwork and opposes the move, then you should show the current orders, the status quo, and offer a plan that minimizes the inconvenience to NCP, such as you paying for transportation to the supervised visitations. Or, during Covid restrictions, virtual supervised visits. (Quarantine rules keep on changing where I am.)

 

[Onthecusp2020]

Dad has been in regular contact with the kids via telephonic calls and although not indicated in our order, I have allowed FaceTime calls. I'm trying to allow as much safe access as possible. I know for a fact that as soon as I file my motion he will suddenly start exercising his supervised visits. I really think that is the only issue working against my motion.

I know no one has a crystal ball, but I'm just wondering if anyone has had a familiar experience. How long of missing visitation does it take for a judge to decide what the 'status quo' is? For example, if he goes 7-8 months w/o seeing kids, then suddenly starts seeing them as soon as I file, would the judge be influenced by the sudden interest? Or read between the lines and recognize the visitation is only meant to prevent me from moving?

Before supervision and sole custody was granted, Dad had 40% custody. Generally, would a judge use that as the status quo? Will a judge be annoyed that I am requesting a move less than a year after the last custody modification was granted? COVID has changed our circumstances in that now both my husband and I are able to work 100% remotely, so there has been a change in circumstances, but I'm not sure it's enough to impress the judge.

Is there anything in CA law about relocation when you have a restraining order against the other parent. That is another huge issue for me. My DVRO's expire this year and after that, he will be free to stalk me again. I'd really feel safer living somewhere that he couldn't just drive by every day or show up on my front porch. He had several arrests for felony assault (on others-not me), lost custody due to child abuse, and has shown up to my house threatening my husband & I. He's also 6'4" and 300lbs. A very scary guy.

As it stands now, relocation would not impede his relationship with our kids. They would have more opportunities, family & resources for their special needs. The therapist supports the move. We would have much more income due to the lower cost of living, to pay for summer camps, college, etc. Although I have won every motion for the past 6 years, I am still always worried about what rabbit out of a hat he is going to surprise me with so I am always trying to figure out how to cross my T's and dot my i's.