Add someone name to property

[shahzadb]

I owe a house with my brother # 1 (who is married)

I want to add my another brother # (married) name to the property without his name on mortgage. Basically he would not be liable for mortgage.

I want to do this because I fear brother #1 wife is crazy & I don’t want her to automacially take some interest in property if something happens to brother # 1 as she is married. She assume she owes 50% of property

what do I need to do at this point

 

[FlyingRon]

Putting someone on a deed is not some membership in club or even necessarily good estate planning. You're irrevocably giving someone some interest in the property. Unless brother #1 is willing to do it, any interest you give brother #2 comes out of your share. In any event, it doesn't in any way lessen the risk of brother #1 and his wife taking control of their half of the property.

 

[quincy]

I owe a house with my brother # 1 (who is married)

I want to add my another brother # (married) name to the property without his name on mortgage. Basically he would not be liable for mortgage.

I want to do this because I fear brother #1 wife is crazy & I don’t want her to automacially take some interest in property if something happens to brother # 1 as she is married. She assume she owes 50% of property

what do I need to do at this point

What is the name of your state?

 

[Taxing Matters]

I owe a house with my brother # 1 (who is married)

I want to add my another brother # (married) name to the property without his name on mortgage. Basically he would not be liable for mortgage.

I want to do this because I fear brother #1 wife is crazy & I don’t want her to automacially take some interest in property if something happens to brother # 1 as she is married. She assume she owes 50% of property

what do I need to do at this point

First of all, all you can do by yourself is transfer some or all of the interest YOU own in the property. You can't transfer any of the interest that Brother #1 (B1) currently holds in that property. So if you and B1 each own 50% of that property, you could, for example, transfer half of your 50% (i.e. 25% of the total property) to Brother #2 (B2) with the result that you would then own 25% of it, B2 would own 25% of it, and B1 would still own his 50% of it. When B1 dies, then it may well be the case that his wife gets his 50% share of the property. In short, there is nothing you can do on your own to prevent her from becoming a co-owner with you down the road. You'd need B1 to help with that.

That said, whether B1's wife might get his share of the property when he dies depends greatly how you and B1 hold this property right now— is as tenants in common (TIC) or as joint tenants with a right of survivorship (JTWROS)? And in what state is this property located? Depending on the answers to those two questions it may be that you don't need to do anything at all. And if that's the case, a transfer of part of your share to B2 could actually make things worse, not better.

 

[zddoodah]

I owe a house with my brother # 1 (who is married)

I assume you meant "own," not "owe" (if that's not right, then why do you "owe [the] house"?).

I want to do this because I fear brother #1 wife is crazy & I don’t want her to automacially take some interest in property if something happens to brother # 1 as she is married. She assume she owes 50% of property

For starters, how do you and brother #1 own the property: As joint tenants? As tenants in common? Something else?

Second, doesn't "something happen[] to brother #1" every day? I assume you're concerned about him dying before his wife. In that regard, does your brother have a will or a trust that provides for the disposition of his interest in the property? If so, what does it say?

Third, why do you think putting brother #2 on the title would solve the problem you mentioned?

Fourth, have you reviewed the mortgage and loan documents to ensure that adding brother #2 to the title won't trigger an acceleration clause?

Fifth, in what state is the property located (and, if different, in what states do you and your brother live)?

what do I need to do at this point

You need to answer the questions so that we can provide more focused responses (as opposed to a bunch of "if then" responses).

 

[shahzadb]

Putting someone on a deed is not some membership in club or even necessarily good estate planning. You're irrevocably giving someone some interest in the property. Unless brother #1 is willing to do it, any interest you give brother #2 comes out of your share. In any event, it doesn't in any way lessen the risk of brother #1 and his wife taking control of their half of the property.

Yes, brother # 1 agrees. & I am willing to reduce my share/interest for brother # 3 (new owner). But don’t need brother # 3 liable for mortgage. Reason why I say, he already owe townhouse & he may not qualify another mortgage & this should prevent us to add his name.

What is the name of your state?

virginia

I assume you meant "own," not "owe" (if that's not right, then why do you "owe [the] house"?).

own

For starters, how do you and brother #1 own the property: As joint tenants? As tenants in common? Something else?

I don’t know, how do I find out? My guess joint tenants

Second, doesn't "something happen[] to brother #1" every day? I assume you're concerned about him dying before his wife. In that regard, does your brother have a will or a trust that provides for the disposition of his interest in the property? If so, what does it say?

yes, dying, divorce or other Matter which might cause wife to take ownership. I think my brother has Will & his wife is beneficiary of his assets.

Third, why do you think putting brother #2 on the title would solve the problem you mentioned?

I know brother # 1’s wife assume, she will get 50% of asset if anything happens to husband. If it comes to this situation, I want to reduce her % by adding additional family in our house ownership. I don’t want her to have any interest at all. I could simply ask brother # 1 to give up all of interest to me. (Last option)

Fourth, have you reviewed the mortgage and loan documents to ensure that adding brother #2 to the title won't trigger an acceleration clause?

I don’t know. How do I check that? Do I call my mortgage company

Fifth, in what state is the property located (and, if different, in what states do you and your brother live)?

VA. Live in same state.

 

[STEPHAN]

To have someone as the owner of a property but not on the mortgage is a future disaster. I have seen it many, many times.

 

[shahzadb]

To have someone as the owner of a property but not on the mortgage is a future disaster. I have seen it many, many times.

thats not what I am asking

 

[quincy]

Thank you for providing your state name.

Based strictly on what you have said, you should be able to give away or sell your interest in the property - but you would be limited to selling/giving away your interest only. This will not affect your brother number 1’s interest. And his interest in the property is likely to go to his wife if he dies - leaving her with 50% ownership and you and your other brother sharing the remaining 50%.

In other words, adding the brother who does not already have interest in the property only makes your own interest in the property less.

Why don’t you sell your share of the property to your co-owning brother? That would relieve some of the stress you are apparently feeling over the fact your brother’s wife might some day co-own the property with you.

Call your mortgage company or get a copy of your loan documents (you actually should have a copy of these already) and read these documents carefully to see if you are limited in what you can do.

As an additional note: I agree with STEPHAN.

 

[shahzadb]

Thank you for providing your state name.

Based strictly on what you have said, you should be able to give away or sell your interest in the property - but you would be limited to selling/giving away your interest only. This will not affect your brother number 1’s interest. And his interest in the property is likely to go to his wife if he dies - leaving her with 50% ownership and you and your other brother sharing the remaining 50%.

In other words, adding the brother who does not already have interest in the property only makes your own interest in the property less.

Why don’t you sell your share of the property to your co-owning brother? That would relieve some of the stress you are apparently feeling over the fact your brother’s wife might some day co-own the property with you.

Call your mortgage company or get a copy of your loan documents (you actually should have a copy of these already) and read these documents carefully to see if you are limited in what you can do.

As an additional note: I agree with STEPHAN.

If there are 3 ppl owner of property, does this make 33.3% equally to all? Versus, 2 owners, where it would be 50% ownership

I don’t want to sell my interest, it will make things less favorable. Concern here brother # 1 wife.

can brother # 1 sell his interest to brother # 3, but keep mortgage brother #2?

I will contact my mortage company & find out

 

[Taxing Matters]

I don’t know, how do I find out? My guess joint tenants

Check the deed to the property. If it's held as joint tenants with a right of survivorship (JTWROS) it should say that on the deed. If the deed does not specify the type of ownership or the deed just says "joint tenants" without mentioning survivorship then in Viriginia that's generally going to be held as tenants in common (TIC). It's important for the deed to specify the right of survivorship for the property to be held JTWROS.

It's critical that you know whether you hold it with your brother as JTWROS or TIC. If the deed does not clearly say that it is held as "joint tenants with a right of survivorship" or as "tenants in common" then take the deed to a Virginia real estate attorney to get an opinion as to what the state of the title is.

The reason this matters is that if you hold the property with B1 as TIC then should B1 die before you, his half interest goes to his estate. From there, his half share goes where his will says it will go, or if he has no will, it goes where the state intestate succession law says it goes. Under intestate succession law if his wife survives him then she gets a share of his estate, which means she might well end up owning some part of that property. Even if he has a will, if she doesn't like what the will gives her she may elect against the will and take a statutory share of the estate. With that statutory share, again she may end up owning some part of that property.

On the other hand, if you and B1 own the property together as JTWROS the result is quite different. In that case, should he die before you do, then his interest disappears and you end up as the sole owner of it automatically. Because his interest disappears, it does NOT go to his estate. As a result, neither his will nor intestate succession law would apply. If you hold it with B1 as JTWROS and you transfer some part of what you own to B3 that will have the effect of breaking the JTWROS ownership and convert it to TIC. In other words, if you own it JTWROS and give B3 a share of your interest, you will screw this up and open the door for B1's wife to get a share of the property when B1 dies.

I could simply ask brother # 1 to give up all of interest to me. (Last option)

Well, that would certainly be one way to cut her off from getting any ownership of the property, but it also means he's giving up his share of the property to you, and he may not want to do that unless you buy it from him.

If there are 3 ppl owner of property, does this make 33.3% equally to all? Versus, 2 owners, where it would be 50% ownership

Here is the problem. Right now you and B1 own the property each with a 50% interest in it. All you can do is transfer your share to someone else. So if you give some or all of your 50% to B3 that does nothing to change that B1 still owns half of it. For example, if you transfer half of your 50% interest to B3, the result is that you and B3 now each own 25% of the property and B1 still owns 50%. And if you owned it as JTWROS with B1 before the transfer, that transfer of half your interest to B3 will break the JTWROS and convert it to TIC. That's not a result you'd want.

If you and B1 own it as JTWROS then you need not do anything because she won't end up with any share of the property if B1 dies before you do.

If you and B1 own it as TIC then to reduce what she might get of the property when B1 dies you'll need cooperation from B1 to do one of two things: (1) redo the deed so that you convert it to JTWROS ownership or (2) transfer some or all of B1's interest to you or someone else. If you need to do either of those things, I strongly encourage you to get help from a real estate attorney to get it done right. Doing (1) would likely be best route to go to solve your problem, but again, you'd want to discuss that with the attorney.

 

[quincy]

If there are 3 ppl owner of property, does this make 33.3% equally to all? Versus, 2 owners, where it would be 50% ownership

I don’t want to sell my interest, it will make things less favorable. Concern here brother # 1 wife.

can brother # 1 sell his interest to brother # 3, but keep mortgage brother #2?

I will contact my mortage company & find out

The only way the three brothers each get 33.3% is if your 50% co-owning brother agrees to reduce his interest in the property and you reduce yours.

BUT, your co-owning brother’s wife probably will still inherit his third. Check to see how the property is owned.

Your brother with the disagreeable wife can do with his interest in the property whatever he wants, within the limits of the loan. He could even sell or give his interest in the property to his wife before he dies.

 

[Ohiogal]

thats not what I am asking

Your bank may call the mortgage if you transfer any of the property to someone else who is not your spouse. Can you pay off the entire mortgage now?

 

[FlyingRon]

Your bank may call the mortgage if you transfer any of the property to someone else who is not your spouse. Can you pay off the entire mortgage now?

Spouse or chidren, but you're right brothers are not exempted.

Still, the "premise" here is wrong. Adding more people to the deed, won't keep a share (be it 33% or 50%) from going to the wife. Joint tenancies when not held between spouses are easily broken. Now if the premise is really that this was some "inherited" home that "should" have gone equally to the three brothers, that might be a different matter, but to protect it from one partner's "crazy" wife isn't going to happen if she can exert influence on her husband to do something.

 

[zddoodah]

I don’t know, how do I find out? My guess joint tenants

Look at the deed. It may say that the grantor gave title "to John Smith and David Smith, as joint tenants with the right of survivorship" or ". . . as tenants in common" or something else.

Lots of things depend on this bit of information, so the best thing to do would be to quote from the deed (with actual names removed or changed).

I know brother # 1’s wife assume, she will get 50% of asset if anything happens to husband. If it comes to this situation, I want to reduce her % by adding additional family in our house ownership. I don’t want her to have any interest at all. I could simply ask brother # 1 to give up all of interest to me. (Last option)

If you and B1 currently own the property jointly and each of you has a 50% interest, then you cannot do anything to reduce B1's interest without his cooperation. You could deed some or all of your 50% interest to B2, but that would have zero impact on B1's interest that might potentially go to his wife.

Fourth, have you reviewed the mortgage and loan documents to ensure that adding brother #2 to the title won't trigger an acceleration clause?

I don’t know. How do I check that? Do I call my mortgage company

How do you do what? You review the mortgage documents by reading them. Are you saying you don't have copies?