Virtual/Economic Nexus and serving subpoena to out of state companies which have these Nexus instate.

[Hulu]

What is the name of your state? UT and California.

Hello.

I have a judgement against an individual and I'm trying to locate their assets. This individual is sort of a traveling salesman type moving around the country.

I am wondering of a an subpoena can be served on a company out of state based on the concept of a Virtual/Economic Nexus?

I know the supreme court recently invented this concept of having this virtual/economic Nexus even without a physical presents in the state on a case involving sales tax and it even overturned their own ruling on it 20 year prior.

Does this concept of a virtual/economic Nexus extend to issuing subpoenas on companies or is it limited for sales tax and nothing else?

 

[Hulu]

What is the name of your state? UT, California, NV

Can an attorney work in a state he is not licensed as a agent ?

I am trying to collect on a judgement however the debtor has assets located in many other states.

Rather then have to hire 10+ different attorneys in each state, can I simple have my existing attorney represent me in another capacity such as an agent within the states he is not licensed in or can I represent myself in the foreign states? I am trying to get the judgement domesticated in order to do a writ of execution on the debtor assets.

Thanks.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? UT, California, NV

Can an attorney work in a state he is not licensed as a agent ?

I am trying to collect on a judgement however the debtor has assets located in many other states.

Rather then have to hire 10+ different attorneys in each state, can I simple have my existing attorney represent me in another capacity such as an agent within the states he is not licensed in or can I represent myself in the foreign states? I am trying to get the judgement domesticated in order to do a writ of execution on the debtor assets.

Thanks.

Some attorneys are licensed in more than one state. Some attorneys can get special temporary licensing in another state for a specific case. Some attorneys have reciprocal agreements with other attorneys in other states.

Odds are, if you hire a collection attorney that attorney will have a method already set up for collection purposes for states other than your own.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? UT and California.

Hello.

I have a judgement against an individual and I'm trying to locate their assets. This individual is sort of a traveling salesman type moving around the country.

I am wondering of a an subpoena can be served on a company out of state based on the concept of a Virtual/Economic Nexus?

I know the supreme court recently invented this concept of having this virtual/economic Nexus even without a physical presents in the state on a case involving sales tax and it even overturned their own ruling on it 20 year prior.

Does this concept of a virtual/economic Nexus extend to issuing subpoenas on companies or is it limited for sales tax and nothing else?

What is it that you are trying to accomplish with the subpoena in question? What information do you need from the company that you cannot get from other sources?

 

[Taxing Matters]

I know the supreme court recently invented this concept of having this virtual/economic Nexus even without a physical presents in the state on a case involving sales tax and it even overturned their own ruling on it 20 year prior.

The concept of nexus is not new in tax law. It has been applied for income tax for decades. The decision of the Supreme Court to which you refer was a change with regard to sales tax. The old Supreme Court view had been that a seller needed to have a physical presence in the state in order for a state to have the power to require an out of state seller to collect and pay sales tax to that state. However, none of that helps you since the tax law principles regarding nexus don't apply to determining jurisdiction for issuing and enforcing subpoenas.

 

[Hulu]

I am trying to locate the debtor and his assets. He operates his business almost like you would expect a scammer would.

All his addresses are UPS store version of P.O box, virtual offices, Virtual mail pickup and scanning, virtual mail shipments, virtual office software and services, virtual everything. Online companies that are located out of state but do business in the state via a website or app. He is running his entire company from a laptop or cell phone. Gives him a legitimate presence by using a lot of virtual service companies.
He takes a lot of steps to hide his location and his assets.

I think the only way I am going to find him and his assets is to subpoena the right company and follow the trail.

I figure my 2 choices are to domesticate a judgement in almost every state he touches or perhaps make the argument based on newest supreme court rulings that these companies have a virtual nexus into the state even if no physical presents.

If the Nexus from an out of state company with no physical presents is strong enough to force them to collect sales tax for that state(something that goes against the supreme court own past rulings), then why would it not be strong enough honor a subpoena from that same state?
It would seem that they have invented a new concept which did not previous exist before of a virtual/economical NEXUS. Previously a Nexus means physical presents ( branch location, warehouse,etc...) in the subject state.

Is this sort of uncharted waters or a gray area of law?

Thanks.

 

[Hulu]

The concept of nexus is not new in tax law. It has been applied for income tax for decades. The decision of the Supreme Court to which you refer was a change with regard to sales tax. The old Supreme Court view had been that a seller needed to have a physical presence in the state in order for a state to have the power to require an out of state seller to collect and pay sales tax to that state. However, none of that helps you since the tax law principles regarding nexus don't apply to determining jurisdiction for issuing and enforcing subpoenas.

So bottom line is Nexus for sales tax does not equal Nexus for subpoena powers to collect a judgement?

If I were to get a judgement in Federal court, would it carry weight in all 50 states or would it be limited by circuit area?

Thanks.

 

[adjusterjack]

How much does this person owe you?

And why?

Was your judgment by default?

 

[Taxing Matters]

So bottom line is Nexus for sales tax does not equal Nexus for subpoena powers to collect a judgement?

Bottom line is that nexus is not a concept that applies for determining court jurisdiction, which is what is the issue with subpoena power.

If I were to get a judgement in Federal court, would it carry weight in all 50 states or would it be limited by circuit area?

You already a have a judgment. You can't get a second one in federal court for the same claim. Even if you could, while a federal district court subpoena may be served anywhere in the US there are some significant limitations on the subpoena power to protect persons that are not located in the state/district where the court is located. See Rule 45 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.

I suggest you consult an attorney in your state who represents clients in collecting judgments. If you are going to try collecting assets in multiple states you want to do it right from the start to minimize your cost outlay in pursuing it.

 

[quincy]

I am trying to locate the debtor and his assets. He operates his business almost like you would expect a scammer would.

All his addresses are UPS store version of P.O box, virtual offices, Virtual mail pickup and scanning, virtual mail shipments, virtual office software and services, virtual everything. Online companies that are located out of state but do business in the state via a website or app. He is running his entire company from a laptop or cell phone. Gives him a legitimate presence by using a lot of virtual service companies.
He takes a lot of steps to hide his location and his assets.

I think the only way I am going to find him and his assets is to subpoena the right company and follow the trail.

I figure my 2 choices are to domesticate a judgement in almost every state he touches or perhaps make the argument based on newest supreme court rulings that these companies have a virtual nexus into the state even if no physical presents.

If the Nexus from an out of state company with no physical presents is strong enough to force them to collect sales tax for that state(something that goes against the supreme court own past rulings), then why would it not be strong enough honor a subpoena from that same state?
It would seem that they have invented a new concept which did not previous exist before of a virtual/economical NEXUS. Previously a Nexus means physical presents ( branch location, warehouse,etc...) in the subject state.

Is this sort of uncharted waters or a gray area of law?

Thanks.

What address did you use for the fellow when you served him with your complaint?

 

[zddoodah]

I have a judgement

Issued by a court in what state? And how much is the judgment?

I am wondering of a an subpoena can be served on a company out of state based on the concept of a Virtual/Economic Nexus?

I've never heard of "the concept of a Virtual/Economic Nexus." However, if you have a judgment issued by a court in State X, persons and entities in State Y are beyond the reach of your judgment and any State X laws that allow for discovery in aid of enforcing the judgment. You would have to domesticate your State X judgment in State Y, at which point you could utilize the laws of State Y to try and enforce the judgment. If you want something less vague, you'll have to be clear about what states are in play. You identified two states in your original post and then identified a third state in a follow up post, but that's not helpful without knowing which state is which.

Can an attorney work in a state he is not licensed as a agent ?

What does "licensed as an agent" mean? What sort of agent? An attorney may only practice law in a state in which he/she is admitted to do so.

can I simple have my existing attorney represent me in another capacity such as an agent within the states he is not licensed

I have no idea what you mean by "represent me . . . as an agent," but see my comment above.

can I represent myself in the foreign states?

Yes.

I figure my 2 choices are to domesticate a judgement in almost every state he touches or perhaps make the argument based on newest supreme court rulings that these companies have a virtual nexus into the state even if no physical presents.

You can domesticate your judgment in all 49 other states if you want. As "Taxing Matters" pointed out, the "nexus" concept relating to sales tax law has nothing to do with enforcing civil money judgments.

If I were to get a judgement in Federal court, would it carry weight in all 50 states or would it be limited by circuit area?

You would not be able to get a judgment in federal court because you already have a judgment. Also, federal court judgments basically get enforced the same way that state court judgments get enforced.

 

[quincy]

I believe Hulu, when referring to a “licensed agent,” is speaking about an agent licensed in any state where the company does business, who has a physical address and who accepts for the company legal documents served on the company.

... What does "licensed as an agent" mean? What sort of agent? An attorney may only practice law in a state in which he/she is admitted to do so. ...

 

[Hulu]

What address did you use for the fellow when you served him with your complaint?

Every address we could find for him. There were UPS stores and virtual offices, registered agents. etc..
He does not have a listed address by design.

 

[Hulu]

Issued by a court in what state? And how much is the judgment?



I've never heard of "the concept of a Virtual/Economic Nexus." However, if you have a judgment issued by a court in State X, persons and entities in State Y are beyond the reach of your judgment and any State X laws that allow for discovery in aid of enforcing the judgment. You would have to domesticate your State X judgment in State Y, at which point you could utilize the laws of State Y to try and enforce the judgment. If you want something less vague, you'll have to be clear about what states are in play. You identified two states in your original post and then identified a third state in a follow up post, but that's not helpful without knowing which state is which.



What does "licensed as an agent" mean? What sort of agent? An attorney may only practice law in a state in which he/she is admitted to do so.



I have no idea what you mean by "represent me . . . as an agent," but see my comment above.



Yes.

You can domesticate your judgment in all 49 other states if you want. As "Taxing Matters" pointed out, the "nexus" concept relating to sales tax law has nothing to do with enforcing civil money judgments.

You would not be able to get a judgment in federal court because you already have a judgment. Also, federal court judgments basically get enforced the same way that state court judgments get enforced.

Can I get my attorney to file the paperwork to domesticate a judgement out of state as long as he does not represent himself to be an attorney in any state he is not licensed in.

I would normally do it myself but don't want to make a mistake and lose my filing fee because of some technical error.

I also don't want to have to hire 7 new attorneys in order to domesticate my lawsuit in 7 different states. However maybe that won't be as hard with these new subscription law firms that operate in multiple states .

This person moves around so much, there is no telling how many states I would need to domesticate the lawsuit in.
Its not even like States near each other. Its like east coast, west coast, mountain area, North west, etc..

He basically said something about how he is judgement proof and how he knows all the tricks so he would never pay in the very beginning. I guess he was not kidding.

Anyway, I may need an relatively inexpensive way to domesticate the judgement in a lot of states

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. The legal system does not seem like it was design with individuals like this in mind with the ability to almost instantly move from state or state.

 

[Hulu]

I believe Hulu, when referring to a “licensed agent,” is speaking about an agent licensed in any state where the company does business, who has a physical address and who accepts for the company legal documents served on the company.

That you are describing, I usually call a "registered agent"

I was also asking if my 1 local attorney can help me domesticate the judgement in multiple states without the need to hire a separate attorney/law firm for each state in order to keep cost down.

Sort of like a hybrid of Pro se litigant with help from a lawyer not registered in the state they are filing in.

 

[quincy]

That you are describing, I usually call a "registered agent"

I was also asking if my 1 local attorney can help me domesticate the judgement in multiple states without the need to hire a separate attorney/law firm for each state in order to keep cost down.

Sort of like a hybrid of Pro se litigant with help from a lawyer not registered in the state they are filing in.

You can ask your attorney the questions you are asking us here. S/he should know how to domesticate judgments.

And, yes. You can have an attorney in your state assist you when needed (e.g., drafting letters) while you remain pro se. What an attorney in your state can’t do is represent you in states when s/he is not licensed to practice in that state.