When a "Verbal Agreement" exceeds 1 year (TN, us)

[ShyHermit]

I sincerely hope to avoid parsing the "Statute of Frauds", but I'm dealing with a landlord who - regrettably has lied. That means to prepare for any other "oversight" of moral behaviour.

• I've found many (All VAGUE) references to the effect that a "Verbal Agreements in Excess of one year" requires a written contract after the year's expired
• It is unclear if a 30 day "tenant at will" verbal agreement is by default excluded, though in PRACTICE this agreement has been honored over 12 months
• There also exists the "Magic #" of $500 (monthly) which may negate the need for a written contract/lease. However this =$6000 annual.
• the new LL is in open violation of several TN Code § 66-28-102 et. seq.
• The penalty or mitigation options in my state are but negligible fines for a LL who's assets are in the 6 digit range

The difficulty is the New LL (logically, he's got rights) seeks to improve and make the "Old Farm House" more profitable, and our occupancy prevents this.

At any moment he can send written notice to evacuate in 30 days - - As stated before, there's nowhere to go. Or we'd have gracefully exited already

I'd prefer to negotiate as grown ups, for all I know the man may have connections that'd help us relocate. eg, RELOCATE is my only agenda - period.

If we could find somewhere to move, we'd already have done so. We're making every effort to find an honest, long term landlord with a RURAL, older structure within our budget. Have been (intermittently, eg getting banned from Craiglist, etc) since the property was sold by FORMER landlord.

If I've anything "actionable" it is the FORMER landlord (of 17 years), who for 3 years deliberately deceived me with regard to "Shall I draw up a lease again?"? His reply was it's "all good, we'll proceed as we always have" .... eg, I was left completely unaware of "tenant at will" till not 10 days prior to closing, he called to verbally advise we'd have a new Landlord...

Ive no time or tiddlywinks to be vindictive - however I NEED TO BARGAIN FOR TIME wth the current LL.
Thanks in Advance

SH

 

[adjusterjack]

I sincerely hope to avoid parsing the "Statute of Frauds"

By avoiding that you are destined to gather, and appear to have gathered, substantial misinformation about it. It's really quite simple and is addressed by TN statute 29-2-101.

Tennessee Code § 29-2-101 (2019) - Writing required for action. :: 2019 Tennessee Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

Unfortunately, it doesn't have anything to do with an original lease that expired and then the tenancy went month to month.

the new LL is in open violation of several TN Code § 66-28-102 et. seq.

Yeah? Specifically, what part?

I was left completely unaware of "tenant at will" till not 10 days prior to closing, he called to verbally advise we'd have a new Landlord...

With all your vague references to being wronged that's the first you've said about what is actually happening to you.

Which is that the owner sold the property and you have a new landlord. This is common. The new owner assumes whatever agreement is already in place. The only part of the TN Residential Landlord Tenant statute that applies to the sale is this:

Tennessee Code § 66-28-305 (2019) - Limitation of landlord's liability. :: 2019 Tennessee Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

Yes, the new owner can give you 30 days notice of termination of tenancy per:

Tennessee Code § 66-28-512 (2019) - Termination of periodic tenancy -- Holdover remedies. :: 2019 Tennessee Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

Apparently he hasn't given you notice, or you would have said so.

How about, rather than being upset about what might happen, you TALK to the new owner about how you might continue your occupancy, if possible.

As stated before, there's nowhere to go.

There's always someplace to go. If your feet get put to the fire, you'll find something, and you'll go.

We're making every effort to find an honest, long term landlord with a RURAL, older structure within our budget.

You might have to set your standards lower and compromise for a while, but you'll go.

I'd prefer to negotiate as grown ups,

Grown ups understand that there are statutory aspects to the landlord tenant relationship. When the statutes allow the landlord to give 30 days notice to vacate, the tenant has no leverage to negotiate.

 

[Taxing Matters]

I sincerely hope to avoid parsing the "Statute of Frauds", but I'm dealing with a landlord who - regrettably has lied. That means to prepare for any other "oversight" of moral behaviour.

• I've found many (All VAGUE) references to the effect that a "Verbal Agreements in Excess of one year" requires a written contract after the year's expired

No. The statute of frauds requires a writing in several circumstances. The one year rule for leases is that a written agreement is required for "any contract for the sale of lands, tenements, or hereditaments, or the making of any lease thereof for a longer term than one (1) year." TN Code 29-2-101(a)(4). If I understand your facts correctly, you've always been in a tenancy at will, which is a lease with no fixed term and proceeds month to month. If that's correct, then you've never had a lease for longer than one year. Even if you continue with the tenancy at will for decades, that doesn't change things because during all that time you never had a lease that obligated you and the landlord for more than one year. And note that had the statute of frauds applied to this lease, that would not likely have helped you anyway.

At any moment he can send written notice to evacuate in 30 days

Right. Which means that your bargaining position is not all that strong.

I'd prefer to negotiate as grown ups, for all I know the man may have connections that'd help us relocate. eg, RELOCATE is my only agenda - period.

Then approach the landlord as a grown and make your offer. Just understand that it is perfectly fine for him as a grown to tell you he's not interested in your offer and instead he wants something else. That's how negotiations go. The other party doesn't have to budge if he doesn't want to.

If we could find somewhere to move, we'd already have done so. We're making every effort to find an honest, long term landlord with a RURAL, older structure within our budget.

You're having trouble finding a place that ticks off all the right boxes for you. You may have to be a bit more flexible for the time being. Rarely do we ever get exactly what we want exactly when we want it, after all.

If I've anything "actionable" it is the FORMER landlord (of 17 years), who for 3 years deliberately deceived me with regard to "Shall I draw up a lease again?"? His reply was it's "all good, we'll proceed as we always have" .... eg, I was left completely unaware of "tenant at will" till not 10 days prior to closing, he called to verbally advise we'd have a new Landlord...

And how exactly did the landlord deceive you? What lie did the landlord actually tell you? It sounds to me like the landlord just simply didn't disclose to you his plans to sell the place before the sale was done. That's not deception.

Ive no time or tiddlywinks to be vindictive - however I NEED TO BARGAIN FOR TIME wth the current LL.

Then go TALK TO YOUR LANDLORD. That's the only way to find out if you can get the time you are looking for. If you are looking for some legal charm to hold over the landlord to compel him to give you more time, you're going to be disappointed.

 

[ShyHermit]

There's always someplace to go. If your feet get put to the fire, you'll find something, and you'll go.

Sir I'd gratefully walk hot coals for "Somewhere to go" ... There IS NOWHERE (so far) THIS would work, but I can't see my son making a 4 hour commute (1 way) to work... The increased wear on his car invokes the certain crisis of "No Car No Job" it would be unfair to future Landlord.

how exactly did the landlord deceive you? What lie did the landlord actually tell you?

When the FORMER landlord "bailed" supporting my actions restoring my Section 8 "portable Voucher" [SNIP] I asked him "What now stands as a lease? Do we need a new one?" his reply was "Everything's fine, we're good with continuing as we always have".

So the following 2 years I'd no idea we had ZERO written lease, I specifically asked "Do we need a new lease" Former LL's response led me to believe none was needed. How do remarks "continuing as we always have" (there was ALWAYS a lease) negate the intent (OR RESULTING EFFECT) of deception?

If you are looking for some legal charm to hold over the landlord to compel him to give you more time, you're going to be disappointed.

for the current LL several "castrated c;lauses" in TCA - there's
66-28-107. Residential landlord registration.
(Castrated by section (b)
b)
(1) Any landlord who fails to register or who fails to send notification of change of ownership as required by this section shall be assessed a fine in the amount of fifty dollars ($50.00) per week by the agency or department of local government that is responsible for enforcing building codes in the jurisdiction where the dwelling units are located.

And several others wherein he's in violation all of which are useless.

As I originally stated, we NEED TO EVACUATE- making trouble with someone who's assets 300x my own solves nothing

We've not been asked to - however, there's a 12 in dead tree fxin to fall on the old electric wires... I've asked for several years (Both LL) to adress the clear &present haxard. nobody has done so. When that tree falls, thre'll be nothing to bargain about

TY

SH

 

[ShyHermit]

You might have to set your standards lower and compromise for a while, but you'll go.

Whould you KINDLY explin what this means?

Our standards are the MINIMAL for "safe occupancy" - I've selected counties which DO NOT enforce building codes

HOW MUCH LOWER CAN MY STANDARDS LEGALLY GO?

I's gratefully occupy a log cabin, barn, anything with running water and power pole.

Is this LEGAL in tN?

 

[Zigner]

Sir I'd gratefully walk hot coals for "Somewhere to go" ... There IS NOWHERE (so far) THIS would work, but I can't see my son making a 4 hour commute (1 way) to work... The increased wear on his car invokes the certain crisis of "No Car No Job" it would be unfair to future Landlord.

Perhaps your son ought to find a place of his own...

When the FORMER landlord "bailed" supporting my actions restoring my Section 8 "portable Voucher" [SNIP] I asked him "What now stands as a lease? Do we need a new one?" his reply was "Everything's fine, we're good with continuing as we always have".

So the following 2 years I'd no idea we had ZERO written lease, I specifically asked "Do we need a new lease" Former LL's response led me to believe none was needed. How do remarks "continuing as we always have" (there was ALWAYS a lease) negate the intent (OR RESULTING EFFECT) of deception?

How did he deceive you? Things were fine all that time, right?

for the current LL several "castrated c;lauses" in TCA - there's
66-28-107. Residential landlord registration.
(Castrated by section (b)
b)
(1) Any landlord who fails to register or who fails to send notification of change of ownership as required by this section shall be assessed a fine in the amount of fifty dollars ($50.00) per week by the agency or department of local government that is responsible for enforcing building codes in the jurisdiction where the dwelling units are located.

Then report him. Just keep in mind that this has no bearing on YOU.

... there's a 12 in dead tree fxin to fall on the old electric wires... I've asked for several years (Both LL) to adress the clear &present haxard. nobody has done so. When that tree falls, thre'll be nothing to bargain about

IF the tree falls and IF it causes damage, THEN the LL will need to address it.

 

[adjusterjack]

Sir I'd gratefully walk hot coals for "Somewhere to go" ... There IS NOWHERE (so far) THIS would work, but I can't see my son making a 4 hour commute (1 way) to work... The increased wear on his car invokes the certain crisis of "No Car No Job" it would be unfair to future Landlord.

Today, call the new owner and talk about continuing your tenancy. Then come back and report the results.

 

[zddoodah]

I'm unsure what the point of this post is. You didn't ask a question, and the only legal issue you raised doesn't really apply to your situation (or, if it did, it would not benefit you in any way).

I've found many (All VAGUE) references to the effect that a "Verbal Agreements in Excess of one year" requires a written contract after the year's expired

The one year statute of frauds provides that, in order to be enforceable, a contract that cannot, by its terms, be fully performed in one year or less must be in writing. This is typically interpreted strictly against the application of the doctrine. For example, a contract that provides for payment of $100 per month "for the rest of the promissor's life" does not fall within the ambit of the SOF, no matter how old the promissor is. Why? Because it's possible (even if extremely unlikely) that the promissor or promisee will die before one year has passed.

It is unclear if a 30 day "tenant at will" verbal agreement is by default excluded, though in PRACTICE this agreement has been honored over 12 months

It would, quite clearly, not fall within the ambit of the SOF because a "30 day 'tenant at will'" agreement could be fully performed in no more than 30 days.

the new LL is in open violation of several TN Code § 66-28-102 et. seq.

A meaningless allegation without any specifics.

At any moment he can send written notice to evacuate in 30 days

Evacuate? You mean a notice to terminate the tenancy?

As stated before, there's nowhere to go.

Huh?

I NEED TO BARGAIN FOR TIME wth the current LL.

Ok. So get off the internet and do it.

 

[STEPHAN]

I don't understand: If this place is so important for you, why did you not insist on a long-term contract?

 

[quincy]

For help in relocating, here is a link to Tennessee resources:

https://www.tncourts.gov/Eviction Resources