landscaper damage

[reds54]

What is the name of your state? PA

We moved from condo in Pa to FL. Within 1 week after moving out (leaving property empty until settlement), landscaper apparently kicked up a stone and damaged condo back door. This door was 4 sets of 3' panels with enclosed blinds. Realtor had visited property and found damage and took pictures along with the offending stone. Lawn had been newly cut. Cost to replace 1 insert because of enclosed blind was about $700. I approached condo regarding insurance who referred me to landscaper. I also contacted my insurance but they said there were 2 others responsible, HOA and landscaper therefore they would not honor claim. Landscaper said it was not worth submitting to insurance and he would send payment. I offered to split with him so neither one of us had full financial burden. He asked for paypal, venmo and physical address but has sent nothing and is now ignoring me. This happened about 3 months ago. We are going back to Pa in Dec and if I filed a small claims complaint what are my chances of winning?

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state? PA

We moved from condo in Pa to FL. Within 1 week after moving out (leaving property empty until settlement), landscaper apparently kicked up a stone and damaged condo back door. This door was 4 sets of 3' panels with enclosed blinds. Realtor had visited property and found damage and took pictures along with the offending stone. Lawn had been newly cut. Cost to replace 1 insert because of enclosed blind was about $700. I approached condo regarding insurance who referred me to landscaper. I also contacted my insurance but they said there were 2 others responsible, HOA and landscaper therefore they would not honor claim. Landscaper said it was not worth submitting to insurance and he would send payment. I offered to split with him so neither one of us had full financial burden. He asked for paypal, venmo and physical address but has sent nothing and is now ignoring me. This happened about 3 months ago. We are going back to Pa in Dec and if I filed a small claims complaint what are my chances of winning?

You could file a claim against both the condo association (if they hired the landscaper) and against the landscaper. Just serving the summons and complaint on both probably has a pretty good chance of one or the other paying the $700 without having to take the matter to court. But I certainly can’t guarantee success.

 

[zddoodah]

Within 1 week after moving out (leaving property empty until settlement), landscaper apparently kicked up a stone and damaged condo back door.

A landscaper hired by whom? And the damage was to an exterior door. Correct?

I also contacted my insurance but they said there were 2 others responsible, HOA and landscaper therefore they would not honor claim.

This is not surprising. A condo is typically defined to mean a living unit including the interior walls, but not anything beyond that. An exterior building door should be covered by the property owner's insurance but would not typically be covered by a condo owner's policy.

We are going back to Pa in Dec and if I filed a small claims complaint what are my chances of winning?

If it's an exterior door, you probably have zero chance of winning because the property damaged probably isn't yours (unless it's not actually a condo).

 

[reds54]

A landscaper hired by whom? And the damage was to an exterior door. Correct?



This is not surprising. A condo is typically defined to mean a living unit including the interior walls, but not anything beyond that. An exterior building door should be covered by the property owner's insurance but would not typically be covered by a condo owner's policy.



If it's an exterior door, you probably have zero chance of winning because the property damaged probably isn't yours (unless it's not actually a condo).

Yes this was an exterior steel door. The replacement insert was about 350 and the remaining was pickup of new insert, disposal of old insert and installation. HOA hired landscaper and claims no responsibility. Recently I requested copy of the portion of their contract addressing damage and the HOA claims no responsibility and again referred me to landscaper. No one wants to claim on insurance because of the dollar amount and my insurance won't cover because HOA and landscaper would be first in line. I have pictures of where the stone hit, the stone itself and of course, the damage. So far I am the only one out of pocket.

 

[reds54]

A landscaper hired by whom? And the damage was to an exterior door. Correct?



This is not surprising. A condo is typically defined to mean a living unit including the interior walls, but not anything beyond that. An exterior building door should be covered by the property owner's insurance but would not typically be covered by a condo owner's policy.



If it's an exterior door, you probably have zero chance of winning because the property damaged probably isn't yours (unless it's not actually a condo).

So you are saying that because this is a condo - according to documents we own inside the outside wall front to inside of outside wall back - the responsibility should be association and not mine? If this is true, then why are we responsible for replacement windows?

 

[quincy]

So you are saying that because this is a condo - according to documents we own inside the outside wall front to inside of outside wall back - the responsibility should be association and not mine? If this is true, then why are we responsible for replacement windows?

What do your bylaws say about exterior doors?

 

[reds54]

To be clear this is a condo however there is no common entry. Each unit is 2 story with their own entrance. So this is the unit outside door.

 

[quincy]

To be clear this is a condo however there is no common entry. Each unit is 2 story with their own entrance. So this is the unit outside door.

Okay. Some bylaws spell out that windows and exterior doors and door frames are the responsibility of the condo owner. Some bylaws assign responsibility to the condo association. And some bylaws say nothing at all about the exterior doors and windows.

The answer to whether the landscaper and/or the condo association are responsible could be in your bylaws. If the landscaper broke the window, though, sue the landscaper.

 

[reds54]

Good question! I'll have to reread bylaws. I know it is our responsibility to maintain

 

[quincy]

Maintenance is different than repairing damage caused by someone else.

If your condo association will not pay for repairs, your insurance company or the landscaper should. You hopefully have evidence enough to show the landscaper’s lawn work caused the broken window.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

The HOA can claim anything they like. FIle a small claims suit against both the HOA and the contractor. FOR THE FULL AMOUNT.

 

[quincy]

Reading the bylaws first is probably smart before filing suit.

 

[adjusterjack]

If your condo association will not pay for repairs, your insurance company or the landscaper should.

The unitowner's insurance will only pay for covered items. The building structure is generally not a covered item in a condo. The unitowner's policy follows the definition of "unit" that appears in the CC&Rs. Unit might include windows by definition, might include other items. One would have to carefully read the CC&Rs to find out.

It occurs to me to ask. Was the door perhaps paid for by the unitowner as an improvement? If that's the case then a unitowner's improvements to the structure should be covered by the unitowner's policy.

As for the landscaper's liability, there might not be any. He would, of course, be liable for any damage caused by his negligence. Where is the negligence here? Did he have a duty to examine every blade of grass to make sure there wasn't a rock behind it? I don't think so. A lawn mower kicking up a rock is a risk that is inherent in mowing grass and likely beyond the control of the landscaper. Thus, no negligence and nothing to sue him for, unless his contract with the HOA makes him strictly liable for any damage with or without negligence.

 

[quincy]

All good points.

 

[zddoodah]

HOA hired landscaper and claims no responsibility.

Nor should it. The landscaper may be liable. The HOA isn't liable just because it hired the landscaper.

Note that I said the landscaper may be liable because sometimes lawnmowers kick up small stones even in the absence of negligence.

Recently I requested copy of the portion of their contract addressing damage and the HOA claims no responsibility and again referred me to landscaper.

I'd be at least a little surprised if there's any sort of detailed contract with a landscaper/gardener. Whether you're entitled to a copy of such contract depends on the HOA's CC&Rs and by-laws.

No one wants to claim on insurance because of the dollar amount

Not surprising, and I'd expect the landscaper/gardener (if it has insurance at all) probably has a self-insured retention (sort of like a deductible for liability insurance) well in excess of $350.

So you are saying that because this is a condo - according to documents we own inside the outside wall front to inside of outside wall back - the responsibility should be association and not mine? If this is true, then why are we responsible for replacement windows?

What I recited previously is fundamental condominium law. I neither know THAT you're "responsible for replacement windows" or, if you are, WHY that is the case. It's possible that the CC&Rs have altered the fundamental rules of condo law. Needless to say, neither I nor anyone else here is familiar with your CC&Rs. We can only provide generalized info. You'll also need to review your insurance documents to determine exactly what is and isn't covered.

To be clear this is a condo however there is no common entry. Each unit is 2 story with their own entrance. So this is the unit outside door.

Sounds more like a townhouse than a condo. With a townhouse, you own the structure but not the land on which it sits, and the rules to which I've referred are different.

While I don't disagree with the suggestion of filing a small claims suit, it is really worth your time and the expense of travel for $350?