Seeking advice on employers obligations for required trainings

[iEngineer]

What is the name of your state? Ohio

I’m looking for some help interpreting employers obligations for mandatory training.

A family member is a registered dental hygienist and is classified by her employer as salaried-exempt. Employer is mandating training & certification to be completed by the end of 2023. Employer indicated they will not pay/reimburse for such training.

From what I was reading online, this doesn’t line up with guidelines from the department of labor…but I was hoping someone here can confirm, particularly to make sure it would also apply to salaried-exempt employees.

Does the employer have to pay: her regular salary during training? The cost of the training itself? Travel expenses to the training?

If they do have to pay, what options exist in-advanced since it would be required by the end of next year. Is it a wait & react if she can’t convince them to pay up front? Or pay for it out of pocket and seek reimbursement, probably filing a complaint with the department of labor? She would prefer to keep working here as she likes the office, patients, and location.

The training is tied to the employee in the form of an additional license/certification, so it would stay with her so long as she keeps it active. It is being mandated that she obtain it though, not something she is seeking on her own for career advancement. It's also not related to her duties as a hygienist, it's related to administering anesthetics.

Thanks.

 

[Zigner]

Please have your relative log on to ask her own questions about her personal matter. She will likely have information that you are simply not privy to. Thank you for understanding.

 

[Taxing Matters]

What is the name of your state? Ohio
The training is tied to the employee in the form of an additional license/certification, so it would stay with her so long as she keeps it active. It is being mandated that she obtain it though, not something she is seeking on her own for career advancement. It's also not related to her duties as a hygienist, it's related to administering anesthetics.

Thanks.

As the education is outside of work, not employer provided, and would enable her to get licensing/certification to do things that she is currently unable to do, I think she'll find that it's up to her to pay for it. See the following Ohio law firm blog for employers on this issue:
https://www.ohioemployerlawblog.com/2009/03/do-you-know-pay-for-employee-training.html

However, she may be entitled to tax benefits for this and may want to alert her employer that paying at least part of it may qualify the employer for tax benefits that would effectively offset that expense.

 

[cbg]

It's been two decades since I did payroll and a decade since the death of our forum payroll expert so I may not have this exactly right. But as I recall, if she is legitimately classified as exempt (which she may or may not be; some dental hygienists meet the criteria for exempt and some do not) then she must be paid her full salary if she does the training during her regular work hours, but not if she does it on her own time. She need not be paid for the cost of the training itself, or for any travel (at least, not in Ohio).

If she is not correctly classified, the it depends on whether the training is state-mandated or employer-mandated. If the state mandates it, then she is not due any pay for studying on her own time but she is due pay for anything she does towards it on work time. If it is employer mandated by not required by the state, then she is due pay for any time she works on it and for the cost of training; Federal travel rules apply.

Again, this is just off the top of my head based on memories that are years old - if I am incorrect someone please correct me.

 

[iEngineer]

Thanks for the great responses so far! I appreciate it.
As this issue arose and we started looking into it, we came upon the same questions about hygienists meeting the criteria for an exempt employee. We found a blog post discussing this and at the current time, we believe she is correctly classified as exempt. She received a 4-year degree, holds a professional occupational license issued by the state, and meets the minimum salary threshold.

The only thing I didn’t about her payroll is that her employer seems to be paying her hourly (say a patient cancels and she goes home early that day or when she’s sick and doesn’t work the pay is reduced). I know from going through an investigation with my own company through the federal department of labor that for exempt employees, that salary needs to be guaranteed independent of hours worked. I’m encouraging her to file a complaint so she can talk to someone from the local field office about this.

Back to the training though, this isn’t anything required by the state. It’s only being mandated by her employer. The reason they gave her is because they want her to be able to administer anesthetics for better process flow in the practice (less patient wait time). They could hire someone else for this who isn’t a hygienist, but they don’t see a need for full time. Currently only the two dentists are able to administer anesthetics. There are other hygienists, but she is the most senior one who they selected for this.

I understand that this license would be tied to her, but it’s frustrating because it’s not something she wants to pursue on her own. She could certainly work as a hygienist any other practice just fine. She’s also willing to get certified for them, just not at her own expense. She even told them she would agree to not quit for a period of time if they pay for it. The practice is sticking to their guns though on saying they aren’t required to pay for it, but are mandating she obtain it to continue working.

 

[Just Blue]

Thanks for the great responses so far! I appreciate it.
As this issue arose and we started looking into it, we came upon the same questions about hygienists meeting the criteria for an exempt employee. We found a blog post discussing this and at the current time, we believe she is correctly classified as exempt. She received a 4-year degree, holds a professional occupational license issued by the state, and meets the minimum salary threshold.

The only thing I didn’t about her payroll is that her employer seems to be paying her hourly (say a patient cancels and she goes home early that day or when she’s sick and doesn’t work the pay is reduced). I know from going through an investigation with my own company through the federal department of labor that for exempt employees, that salary needs to be guaranteed independent of hours worked. I’m encouraging her to file a complaint so she can talk to someone from the local field office about this.

Back to the training though, this isn’t anything required by the state. It’s only being mandated by her employer. The reason they gave her is because they want her to be able to administer anesthetics for better process flow in the practice (less patient wait time). They could hire someone else for this who isn’t a hygienist, but they don’t see a need for full time. Currently only the two dentists are able to administer anesthetics. There are other hygienists, but she is the most senior one who they selected for this.

I understand that this license would be tied to her, but it’s frustrating because it’s not something she wants to pursue on her own. She could certainly work as a hygienist any other practice just fine. She’s also willing to get certified for them, just not at her own expense. She even told them she would agree to not quit for a period of time if they pay for it. The practice is sticking to their guns though on saying they aren’t required to pay for it, but are mandating she obtain it to continue working.

Again, as Zigner mentioned in the first response to this thread, please have your relative sign up under their own user name and post. It is better to deal directly with the person whos legal issue it is rather than a 3rd party.

 

[iEngineer]

Again, as Zigner mentioned in the first response to this thread, please have your relative sign up under their own user name and post. It is better to deal directly with the person whos legal issue it is rather than a 3rd party.

Sorry that won’t be feasible in this case. She’s in a rural area and only has her phone for access to the internet. She would have to connect from town instead of just at home.

The question is general and appears to have been answered pending correct classification of her status under FLSA.

 

[cbg]

Sounds as if she does meet the criteria for exempt status according to my (very brief) search last night.

That being the case, if the actual dollars in her paycheck are being shorted when she leaves early, that is an FLSA violation.. If the employer is substituting pay from her vacation or sick time banks, that is not.

 

[adjusterjack]

She even told them she would agree to not quit for a period of time if they pay for it.

Jeez. She really said that? How foolish. Here's what the boss heard: "I'll quit if you don't pay for it." I'd be surprised if she doesn't end up unemployed over this.

She's being very shortsighted about this. Getting the certification can enhance her value to her employer, or to another employer if necessary.

Lots of professional people get certifications on their own time with their own money and end up making more money at better jobs. A friend of mine recently spent $15,000 on certifications in his field that will result in a substantial increase in future earnings.

How old is she? If she is in her 40s or 50s maybe she doesn't care about advancement. That's OK. But if she is in her 20s or 30s she's got a lot more working years ahead of her. Paying for her own certification would be an investment in her own future.

I think you are pushing (well, advising) her in the wrong direction.

 

[iEngineer]

Sounds as if she does meet the criteria for exempt status according to my (very brief) search last night.

That being the case, if the actual dollars in her paycheck are being shorted when she leaves early, that is an FLSA violation.. If the employer is substituting pay from her vacation or sick time banks, that is not.

I agree with this…where I work we went through an investigation with the US DOL and the investigator was very helpful explaining that. I told her she should file a complaint because from what I looked at just from this years pay stubs she is being shorted a couple thousand. It’ll be even more if the the DOL would find that because of being shorted she was actually hourly non-exempt because there would be overtime kicking then. She said everyone in the office gets shorted on pay for closing/leaving early and doesn’t get paid overtime for staying late either.

Jeez. She really said that? How foolish. Here's what the boss heard: "I'll quit if you don't pay for it." I'd be surprised if she doesn't end up unemployed over this.

She did…effectively though the decision was already made the moment her boss said to get it by the end of 2023. Either quit, get the certification, or get terminated for not getting it. I told her if it’s that big of a sticking point then she’s going to have to find a new employer who doesn’t care about the certification.

She's being very shortsighted about this. Getting the certification can enhance her value to her employer, or to another employer if necessary.

Lots of professional people get certifications on their own time with their own money and end up making more money at better jobs. A friend of mine recently spent $15,000 on certifications in his field that will result in a substantial increase in future earnings.

How old is she? If she is in her 40s or 50s maybe she doesn't care about advancement. That's OK. But if she is in her 20s or 30s she's got a lot more working years ahead of her. Paying for her own certification would be an investment in her own future.

I think you are pushing (well, advising) her in the wrong direction.

Maybe she is, but ultimately that decision is her’s to make. There’s nothing wrong with not wanting to advance. It’s debatable on even how much of an advancement it even would be since from what she said it’s not typically a requirement for hygienists to have anesthetic certifications.

I’m not disagreeing with you though that it would still be adding value to her career. She needs to weigh the costs vs any opportunities. Currently though she is adamant that this isn’t something she wants nor does she want to pay for it on her own.

She is in her late 30’s though. I can assure you I’m not pushing her one way or the other. She was simply asking if I knew of anything that requires her employer to pay for it, since they were the ones requiring she obtain it. I’m probably the only other one in our family who has professional licensees. We are in totally different industries though. In the engineering industry it’s an industry standard for companies to pay for additional trainings/certificates/licenses. I’ve never had or heard of an employer even hesitate at not paying. I always assumed it must have been out of obligation, rather than just something they did voluntarily though.