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Responsibility for damages and how I can legally refute charges if they happen

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JackM678

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Texas

We had a huge freeze here in Texas over the holidays. The problem was is that my kids and I left for Los Angeles before it happened. We were warned that it would happen and to keep our heat at 60 when out of the apartment and leave water at a drip. The issue was, we were gonna be gone for 9 days, so two days before everything froze, I informed them in writing on a Wednesday morning that we would be out of town for 9 days and not in town for the freeze. The thermostat was set to 60, and I asked if they can turn of the water or winterize the apartment until we returned. I even gave them the code to my lockbox on the front door if they didn't have a key.

Two days later, a pipe above the sink burst and leaked and the fire department had to break down the door causing structural damage. The neighbors all knew it, the staff all knew, but nobody called me and told me and I didn't know about it until we came home 7 days later. They said they didn't think to tell me. I cleaned up the floor myself and threw away the debris. The problem is there are holes in the wall in the kitchen that they cut through, and there is structural damage to the door frame because they knew there was a box on the door with a key, and instead of just calling the building manager to contact me for the code or check their damn email, they broke it down.

I was at the office and asked why they didn't turn of the water when I notified them in writing I was gonna be out of town, and they said it is because they are short staffed and nobody has been checking their emails lately. They said a call would have been preferable, but they don't answer the phone when I call either.

They told me next week after the holidays, contractors will be here to start the repairs. They didn't mention that I had to pay anything, but I don't know what their insurance would cover. It should cover the fixing of the pipes and the damage to the wall, but would it cover the fire department busting my door frame? None of my personal belongings were damaged.

The problem is they keep making all these financial threats that because people in our building are flushing wipes and feminine products, that they are gonna charge us all 150 dollars the next time they have to clean the septic tank, and I admit that even though it is me and 2 boys and we don't flush feminine products, 2 months ago we were flushing wipes until we found out the flushable kind were not flushable and we stopped dumping food down the drains around then too, so we are not contributing to any of the clogged septic tank anymore, so if they try to charge me for other people's issues, I'm gonna have a strong word with them.

So, my question is, if a landlord were to add charges to your account with the rent if their insurance didn't pay out the full claim, how can you dispute it and not pay it without getting evicted? Can I tell them in writing they are required to get a court order in small claims court before I'll pay it, or do I have to pay it and then file a case in court against them?

The last apartment I lived in, they tried to charge me 450 dollars after I moved out and didn't even contact me first, but went right to a collection agency who determined that I was only responsible for 107 dollars that I paid, and the rest they were making up junk fees they had no legal right to charge me. That was after I moved out though, so I wasn't at risk of being evicted.

If they don't have a right to charge me fees or if I can prove they aren't my fault, how can I refuse to pay them and not get evicted?
 


Just Blue

Senior Member
What is the name of your state? Texas

We had a huge freeze here in Texas over the holidays. The problem was is that my kids and I left for Los Angeles before it happened. We were warned that it would happen and to keep our heat at 60 when out of the apartment and leave water at a drip. The issue was, we were gonna be gone for 9 days, so two days before everything froze, I informed them in writing on a Wednesday morning that we would be out of town for 9 days and not in town for the freeze. The thermostat was set to 60, and I asked if they can turn of the water or winterize the apartment until we returned. I even gave them the code to my lockbox on the front door if they didn't have a key.

Two days later, a pipe above the sink burst and leaked and the fire department had to break down the door causing structural damage. The neighbors all knew it, the staff all knew, but nobody called me and told me and I didn't know about it until we came home 7 days later. They said they didn't think to tell me. I cleaned up the floor myself and threw away the debris. The problem is there are holes in the wall in the kitchen that they cut through, and there is structural damage to the door frame because they knew there was a box on the door with a key, and instead of just calling the building manager to contact me for the code or check their damn email, they broke it down.

I was at the office and asked why they didn't turn of the water when I notified them in writing I was gonna be out of town, and they said it is because they are short staffed and nobody has been checking their emails lately. They said a call would have been preferable, but they don't answer the phone when I call either.

They told me next week after the holidays, contractors will be here to start the repairs. They didn't mention that I had to pay anything, but I don't know what their insurance would cover. It should cover the fixing of the pipes and the damage to the wall, but would it cover the fire department busting my door frame? None of my personal belongings were damaged.

The problem is they keep making all these financial threats that because people in our building are flushing wipes and feminine products, that they are gonna charge us all 150 dollars the next time they have to clean the septic tank, and I admit that even though it is me and 2 boys and we don't flush feminine products, 2 months ago we were flushing wipes until we found out the flushable kind were not flushable and we stopped dumping food down the drains around then too, so we are not contributing to any of the clogged septic tank anymore, so if they try to charge me for other people's issues, I'm gonna have a strong word with them.

So, my question is, if a landlord were to add charges to your account with the rent if their insurance didn't pay out the full claim, how can you dispute it and not pay it without getting evicted? Can I tell them in writing they are required to get a court order in small claims court before I'll pay it, or do I have to pay it and then file a case in court against them?

The last apartment I lived in, they tried to charge me 450 dollars after I moved out and didn't even contact me first, but went right to a collection agency who determined that I was only responsible for 107 dollars that I paid, and the rest they were making up junk fees they had no legal right to charge me. That was after I moved out though, so I wasn't at risk of being evicted.

If they don't have a right to charge me fees or if I can prove they aren't my fault, how can I refuse to pay them and not get evicted?
Did you have renters insurance?
 

adjusterjack

Senior Member
If they don't have a right to charge me fees or if I can prove they aren't my fault, how can I refuse to pay them and not get evicted?
Whether you are responsible for paying anything depends entirely on the terms and conditions of your lease. I suggest you read it very carefully/

If the lease makes you responsible it doesn't matter if their insurance pays anything as you might still have to pay the insurance company back and the landlord his deductible.



Did you have renters insurance?
The renters policy HO-4 does not cover the tenant's negligence for damage to the rented unit other than for fire, smoke or explosion.

"Coverage E - Personal Liability does not apply to:
3. Property damage" to property rented to, occupied or used by or in the care of an "insured". This exclusion does not apply to "property damage" caused by fire, smoke or explosion;"


The quote is directly from a sample HO-4.

However, renters insurance is a good thing to have for many other reasons.
 

FarmerJ

Senior Member
Make sure you print off the email you wrote telling them you were going to be away and your request for them to turn off the water or winterize your unit. get this done before it becomes lost. then wait and see what they do and if they do bill you for the repair and you dont pay it yes in the end they can take it off of your deposit which would give you the opportunity to use the courts and let a Judge decide if your email to them gets you off the hook. Do know in the end there is a chance the LL wont renew your lease.
 

Bali Hai Again

Active Member
Make sure you print off the email you wrote telling them you were going to be away and your request for them to turn off the water or winterize your unit. get this done before it becomes lost. then wait and see what they do and if they do bill you for the repair and you dont pay it yes in the end they can take it off of your deposit which would give you the opportunity to use the courts and let a Judge decide if your email to them gets you off the hook. Do know in the end there is a chance the LL wont renew your lease.
That storm was a whopper. It came across the country and pummeled Buffalo and Rochester, NY with zero temperatures, high wind and snow.

I’m waiting to hear how the water pipe sustained ice damage at 60 degrees F.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
That storm was a whopper. It came across the country and pummeled Buffalo and Rochester, NY with zero temperatures, high wind and snow.

I’m waiting to hear how the water pipe sustained ice damage at 60 degrees F.
I am staying in an AirBnB right now due to a fire at my house. When that weather hit the thermostat was set at 74 and we couldn't get it above 64 in the house. We ended up having to go out and buy a space heater to keep things warm enough for the baby. So, its possible that the heat could have been set at 60 but not actually able to keep the place at 60. It wasn't just us either. There were all kinds of people on social media complaining that their furnaces were not actually keeping their homes warm.
 

bcr229

Active Member
I am staying in an AirBnB right now due to a fire at my house. When that weather hit the thermostat was set at 74 and we couldn't get it above 64 in the house. We ended up having to go out and buy a space heater to keep things warm enough for the baby. So, its possible that the heat could have been set at 60 but not actually able to keep the place at 60. It wasn't just us either. There were all kinds of people on social media complaining that their furnaces were not actually keeping their homes warm.
Bingo. My heating system was ok during the day but I had to supplement at night. It wasn't just the cold but the wind sucked heat out of the house.

Also, if that water pipe that burst is in an exterior wall, which is apparently common in TX homes, then it could easily have frozen if the heating system couldn't keep up. I've always lived in colder climates and so I was rather surprised to learn that running plumbing in exterior walls and attics is normal down south. It's not something I'd ever do; my wet walls are all on the interior.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Bingo. My heating system was ok during the day but I had to supplement at night. It wasn't just the cold but the wind sucked heat out of the house.

Also, if that water pipe that burst is in an exterior wall, which is apparently common in TX homes, then it could easily have frozen if the heating system couldn't keep up. I've always lived in colder climates and so I was rather surprised to learn that running plumbing in exterior walls and attics is normal down south. It's not something I'd ever do; my wet walls are all on the interior.
Same here. The main water comes in underground into the center of the house and all other plumbing is interior from there. I doubt if our pipes would freeze unless there was no heat at all for several days.
 

FarmerJ

Senior Member
on our end of things up here we had alot of wind and that it self made it very hard to heat this house which the original main part of the house is now 122 + years old and one morning i came home to find my other half having had turned on all of the first floors electric heaters besides having the wall furnace on and set to 88 . So I turned off the electric heat in theliving room that morning and went up stairs to a 52 degree bedroom and i was so happy to have that heated mattress pad cover which made it comfortable to sleep (heat is under you instead of on top like electric blankets do ) on a outside wall if it was windy it really would not take much even just a tiny crack in the siding to let enough cold air in that a pipe could freeze. n and as per normal when its cold and windy my shower drain freezes at the J trap
 

Bali Hai Again

Active Member
Once the source of that frozen pipe is determined I’m sure the necessary steps will be taken to prevent a future occurrence. Water damage is nasty to deal with, everything gets wet and is difficult to dry in cold weather, wood swells and mold grows. Not every pipe breaks when it freezes. The temperature of the ice needs to be around 20 F to expand enough to split the pipe (any material) and you won’t know there was damage until it thaws. In that case letting a faucet “drip” won’t help a bit.
 

JackM678

Junior Member
Make sure you print off the email you wrote telling them you were going to be away and your request for them to turn off the water or winterize your unit. get this done before it becomes lost. then wait and see what they do and if they do bill you for the repair and you dont pay it yes in the end they can take it off of your deposit which would give you the opportunity to use the courts and let a Judge decide if your email to them gets you off the hook. Do know in the end there is a chance the LL wont renew your lease.
Isn't it illegal to not renew a lease for retaliatory reasons?
 

JackM678

Junior Member
Did you have renters insurance?
My renter's insurance covers personal property as well as those injured on the property and hotel costs if the property becomes unlivable.

The structural damage is all the landlord.

I was hoping to be here awhile, but given now that they are being too lazy to check their emails and my apartment flooded and they never even told me, I'm questioning their character a bit.

My question was more of can they evict you if you're paying the rent, but not paying damages you don't find you're liable for?

I'm not so worried about the security deposit when I move out, because that I can simply take them to small claims court over, as I always dreamed of being on "Judge Judy".
 

adjusterjack

Senior Member
Isn't it illegal to not renew a lease for retaliatory reasons?
It would be your word against theirs that it's retaliatory.

My question was more of can they evict you if you're paying the rent, but not paying damages you don't find you're liable for?
Possibly. It depends on the terms and conditions of your lease. What does your lease say about it?

I'm not so worried about the security deposit when I move out, because that I can simply take them to small claims court over
Nothing simple about small claims court.

I always dreamed of being on "Judge Judy".
Real life court is nothing like Judge Judy.
 
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