Is there a way to find the bank or merchant processor from a website with a payment checkout option?

[GrapesofWath]

Hello.

Is there a way to find the bank or merchant processor from a website with a payment checkout option?

A subpoena was sent to the website cloud service company but sort of a non-answer was provided basically trying to side step the question. They made some statement that did not even answer the question asked.

I think the people answering the subpoena are very slick businessman who can dance around the question or they may be willfully ignorant about how their own computer systems work.

Whereas the I.T department may know exactly who the merchant processor is.

Does anyone have a suggestion on how I can get to the truth of the matter.

This is for a post judgment collection issue by the way. Trying to find the money.

 

[adjusterjack]

Is there a way to find the bank or merchant processor from a website with a payment checkout option?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Details count.

They made some statement that did not even answer the question asked.

Then file for contempt of court.

This is for a post judgment collection issue by the way. Trying to find the money.

I'll bet it was a default judgment when the defendant didn't show up.

When I had my rentals I learned that judgments are often uncollectible.

 

[bcr229]

Is there a way to find the bank or merchant processor from a website with a payment checkout option?

Maybe. You're asking a technical question not a legal question.

You would need to know who is hosting the web site. Since you mentioned "cloud" is it AWS? If so the default merchant processor is Global Payments though some merchants might integrate with a different processor if they have a history with it and other systems are tied to it.

Try bringing up the company's shopping cart system after adding stuff to your cart, start the checkout process, right click in the browser, and select "View Source" in the popup menu. That may also give you a clue.

 

[quincy]

GrapesofWath, it helps if you keep all related questions in the same thread instead of starting separate threads.

Here are links to your other threads for the benefit of others:

https://forum.freeadvice.com/threads/does-a-federal-judgment-have-to-be-domesticated-in-state-court.663623/

https://forum.freeadvice.com/threads/partial-federal-judgment-used-to-collect-in-state-court-judgment-establishing-company-links-for—collection.663589/

 

[zddoodah]

Is there a way to find the bank or merchant processor from a website with a payment checkout option?

What I think you're saying is that a merchant uses a website that offers customers the ability to make online purchases. You're asking if there's a way to find out what bank and/or "merchant processor" the merchant uses. Correct? If so, this isn't a legal question. Nevertheless, of course there's a way. It just depends on whether that information is any of your business.

A subpoena was sent to the website cloud service company

What is the relationship between "the website cloud service company" (whatever that means) and the merchant mentioned in the prior sentence? Who sent the subpoena (your post shifts between first- and third-person, so it's not clear to what extent you're involved in this situation)? What did the subpoena call for?

but sort of a non-answer was provided basically trying to side step the question.

I don't understand what this means. A subpoena is a document (also a judicial process) by which one or both of two things can be compelled from a non-party to a lawsuit: (1) testimony (at a deposition, trial or other court hearing); or (2) the production of documents. A subpoena CANNOT be used simply to ask questions.

Does anyone have a suggestion on how I can get to the truth of the matter.

Based on the information posted, no one here will have an answer other than that the person who served the subpoena should discuss the matter with his/her lawyer.

This is for a post judgment collection issue by the way. Trying to find the money.

In what state was the judgment entered? Is the judgment debtor the "merchant" you mentioned in the first sentence of your post? Someone else?

 

[quincy]

... In what state was the judgment entered? Is the judgment debtor the "merchant" you mentioned in the first sentence of your post? Someone else?

The links to the previous threads by GrapesofWath were provided for a reason - and that reason was so information already posted does not have to be repeated.

GrapesofWath, what documents are you requesting with your subpoena?

 

[GrapesofWath]

Maybe. You're asking a technical question not a legal question.

You would need to know who is hosting the web site. Since you mentioned "cloud" is it AWS? If so the default merchant processor is Global Payments though some merchants might integrate with a different processor if they have a history with it and other systems are tied to it.

Try bringing up the company's shopping cart system after adding stuff to your cart, start the checkout process, right click in the browser, and select "View Source" in the popup menu. That may also give you a clue.

I know who is hosting the website however its not AWS. I at one point had access to the shopping cart however it was since been placed behind a wall to only authorized distributors. So I have screenshots of what it looked at the time and how it accepted credit cards right on it.
It did have the name of the company I had the judgment against, the website service company and extranet in the address bar. My understanding is that extranet is like a private VPN internet. Unfortunately I never did the view source thing when I had access.

The question is who would you send a subpoena too who would be most likely to know who that merchant processor is?

Or would you just send it to everyone involved with the website until someone tells you the merchant processor?

I don't think there is an established protocol on finding this kind of information.

 

[GrapesofWath]

The links to the previous threads by GrapesofWath were provided for a reason - and that reason was so information already posted does not have to be repeated.

GrapesofWath, what documents are you requesting with your subpoena?

Documents related to the identity of the merchant processor or to identify whatever company knows who the merchant processor is for the purpose of collecting.

You ever hear of " follow the money"? Well, easier said then done even with the help of the court behind you.

I honestly don't know how other people do it unless there is some kind of backdoor system made available for some but not others.

 

[GrapesofWath]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Details count.



Then file for contempt of court.



I'll bet it was a default judgment when the defendant didn't show up.

When I had my rentals I learned that judgments are often uncollectible.

Looking for the money for judgment collection.

I think money is at Merchant processor. When a buyer uses a credit card to purchase from a seller, merchant processor is like the middleman to make that happen. Process is slow for the seller to get his money, its not instant. there is a accumulation that happens of the money at the merchant processor before its released to the seller.

Apparent its not something that is easy to find out even if you are involved in the transaction.

I am trying to find out who knows this information or what questions to ask in interrogatories to find this out. Who should a subpoena a be sent to as there are many companies involved in the behind the scenes of credit card processing. I am sure I am not the first person in history who has tried to follow the money. There must be a way of doing it but the process is not common knowledge to the average person.

Perhaps people involved large law firms might know how to do this or maybe certain types of investigators.

Thanks.

 

[LdiJ]

Looking for the money for judgment collection.

I think money is at Merchant processor. When a buyer uses a credit card to purchase from a seller, merchant processor is like the middleman to make that happen. Process is slow for the seller to get his money, its not instant. there is a accumulation that happens of the money at the merchant processor before its released to the seller.

Apparent its not something that is easy to find out even if you are involved in the transaction.

I am trying to find out who knows this information or what questions to ask in interrogatories to find this out. Who should a subpoena a be sent to as there are many companies involved in the behind the scenes of credit card processing. I am sure I am not the first person in history who has tried to follow the money. There must be a way of doing it but the process is not common knowledge to the average person.

Perhaps people involved large law firms might know how to do this or maybe certain types of investigators.

Thanks.

I do not know what your definition of slow is, but in this day and age, it is quite quick, and there is no particular accumulation. It is about 48 hours. We will have Monday's credit card money in our bank account by Wednesday, and that includes the processing time at our bank as well. No one batch is bigger than a single day's receipts. I have never seen anyone attempt to use levying from someone's merchant services account to attempt to collect debt. The money just moves too rapidly and through too many steps.

Also, the whole nature of a merchant services processor seems like it would not work anyway. The company accepting the credit cards is buying a service from the merchant servicer. It is like buying something from a store. A creditor wouldn't be able to levy the grocery store for the money someone spent on groceries. I am not sure they could levy the merchant servicer in that manner either.

 

[adjusterjack]

There must be a way of doing it but the process is not common knowledge to the average person.

I'm not sure if you ever said, but how much money is involved?

 

[zddoodah]

I'll ask again:

In what state was the judgment entered?

 

[quincy]

I'll ask again:

Utah.

It’s in the posting history.

 

[quincy]

GrapesofWath, you cannot simply issue a flurry of subpoenas to everyone hoping that someone might have information helpful to you. You need to establish a basis for the subpoena first. I am not seeing that you have established that yet.

Perhaps you should hand your judgment over to a collection agency? You will not collect the full amount of the judgment but an agency will have tools to collect that you do not have.

 

[Taxing Matters]

I have never seen anyone attempt to use levying from someone's merchant services account to attempt to collect debt. The money just moves too rapidly and through too many steps.

I've seen it done as I did something similar when I was at the IRS collecting delinquent tax. The fact that money is regularly flowing through the processor to the merchant would allow the levy to attach to at least one day's worth of payments. I'd use multiple levies in sequence to keep attaching additional days worth of funds. It was a bit time consuming (though it would be eaiser today with all the advancements in technology) and it was tedious. It was, however, effective in collecting the taxes owed. Most private collection companies wouldn't bother with this sort of thing unless the amount owed was substantial and there was no easy and less expensive way to do it. And that's probably why you've never seen it done. It can be done, it's just not very common. It's not even very common for the IRS to do it, but I was one of those sorts who was willing to go outside the usual collection tool box most collectors use to get the money owed. In order to do it, I had to find out exactly how the particular process the taxpayer/merchant used worked to identify the spot in the payment chain that I could hit and reasonably expect to get some money. Like I said, it's a bit time consuming and tedious. That was, however, back in the days where IRS officers were allowed to do levies that were not economically efficient to make a point to the taxpayer. It disrupted the taxpayer's business enough that the taxpayer would finally get serious about coming up with a reasonable payment plan to pay off the liability. That motivation effect is what made them worth doing. Congress cut that off for collection of most taxes about the time I went to law school. Now a bit more creativity is needed to achieve the same thing, but most revenue officers don't feel a need to get creative.

A creditor wouldn't be able to levy the grocery store for the money someone spent on groceries. I am not sure they could levy the merchant servicer in that manner either.

No, not if it was the customer that you're trying to collect from. But if it was the merchant who was the debtor, it would be possible (though again tedious, time consuming, and expensive) to levy the payments the merchant was receiving at the cash register. Again, I've only seen it done once, by the IRS. One of my revenue officer colleagues succeeded in seizing all the stock of a grocery store and effectively took over the business for a few days to sell off all the perishable food items, and attaching all the funds that customers paid. The entire seizure as a whole was economically viable and could be done still today, if the revenue officers are willing to put in the effort that takes.

As you know, the IRS has more power to collect than private creditors do, and it's easier for the IRS to do as well. For private debt collectors, those kinds of things would very, very rarely be economically justified and thus they don't do it. I can't blame them — few want to spend more to collect than they ultimately get from the effort.

The TL;DR of this is that collecting from a retail merchant debtor's payments from customers is possible, just not usually cost effective to do it.