New Hampshire Nursing Home…Too Late?

[wenchris]

New Hampshire
We have a 93 year old father living in NH with his second wife Who is also 93 with Alzheimer’s And is presently in the hospital after a sever fall. She will be transferred into rehab for 20 day then continue on there for long term care (nursing home)
They were married in their 60’s and have 2nd home in Florida in his name but not primary residence.
New Hampshire home is in her name that is willed to her children that supposedly can stay in till he dies.
We are concerned about his well-being as me and my siblings live out of state.
Can he stay in her home or will nursing home come after this asset?
We are under the impression that his assets are also up for grabs except for $128,000.
He is very independent and does not want his offspring in his business nor would he want to live with any of us.
All accounts between him and his wife have been separate all these years and understand that they take 50% from each till gone, is this correct?
Also can he take his assets and buy a home in NH in his name so that if she pre deceases he could at least take that money and move closer to one of his children.
We are trying to get an appointment with an elder care attorney but he lives in the middle of nowhere.
Is it too late to do anything? If you knew. my father you would understand.
His children
Florida
New York
Texas
New York

 

[zddoodah]

Can he stay in her home or will nursing home come after this asset?

We have no way of intelligently guessing, but the nursing home isn't going to "come after" anything if its bills are being paid. Do you have reason to believe that might not happen?

All accounts between him and his wife have been separate all these years and understand that they take 50% from each till gone, is this correct?

"They"?

Also can he take his assets and buy a home in NH in his name so that if she pre deceases he could at least take that money and move closer to one of his children.

We have no way of knowing if he has this ability.

Is it too late to do anything?

Anything about what?

 

[commentator]

No nursing home, even if it is being paid for by Medicaid, is going to "come after" anybody's home and throw their resident spouse out on the street. And your stepmother is quite a ways from Medicaid, fom the sound of things. You certainly need to speak with an eldercare attorney who will be able to explain things to you. And from the sound of this, it doesn't sound like her care is going to be any kind of "long term" issue. She has Alzheimers, is 93 years old and has been hospitalized after a severe fall. Guessing, I'd not even be sure she's going to have to have the 20 days in rehab. If she makes it past those, it's questionable if she'll need years and years of long term care in that nursing home. And first, the couple needs to pay their bills. I am not sure what you're referring to regarding 50% of hers and 50% of his being taken.

Medicare does not cover long term care, though it will likely be covering her 20 days in a rehab facility. After that, you private pay until your assets are reduced to a very low certain amount. This includes both of the two people in this marriage. Medicaid is an income based program administered through government social services and works in tandem with the nursing facility to provide paid for care for the patient or patients who have no other assets. Their home is not taken by the program until they have passed. I'm sure the attorney can tell you whose assets must be used to pay first or what would be "taken"

When certifying for Medicaid, the worker will consider any assets the couple has had going back five years, so moving money or titles around at this point is probably not going to help make them eligible for Medicaid, as I said, if and when there is a need to determine if they are qualified for Medicaid. By all means, speak to the nursing home, and speak to your attorney, but remember that when considering the assets of a married couple, there's not a lot of attention paid to whose name this was in and that was in if they run through enough of their assets that they have to sign up for Medicaid benefits. At their ages the clock is running out pretty fast.

 

[wenchris]

Thank you C that clears things up quite a bit for us! We are as of today in touch with an elder care attorney. Quite a bit of disinformation on the internet. Not trying to scam the system as we are just trying to protect our dad when he needs care down the line. Things are still fluid and changing by the day but at least this helps explain to us in layman’s terms. Once again thank you for taking the time to explain and respond.
Florida
New York
Texas
New York

 

[wenchris]

Wow, have learned a bunch over the last week. Attorney’s appointment over a week away as they are non existent in this part of NH. One question though, Hospital and Nursing Home says we need to fill out application for Medicaid to get the process going. Local Medicaid official said to put on the application the reason is: Financial Resource Assessment
My dad will be self paying the nursing home and is years away from Medicaid. Is this something that can “wait” or should I drop off the application and be done with it. Just the thought of someone delving into my dad’s finances is a little unsettling. Will Medicaid dictate what monies are to be used first? Or is everything good till the money starts to dry up?
Thank you,
Florida
New York
Texas
New York

 

[Taxing Matters]

Your father is not at a point where Medicaid would be in play for him. As a result, I don't see how submitting that form Medicaid now would help anything. It's his financial condition when he files for Medicaid benefits that will matter, and at the point the government will want a current form, not one completed years before. The appointment with the lawyer is just a week away. It's nothing that can't wait a week for you and your father to meet with the attorney and map out a plan for his future.

 

[commentator]

Well, I''d say that since the local Medicaid official has no idea what your father's financial situation is, they would recommend an immediate application to get the ball rolling. For all they know, any time someone goes into care, it's going to be needed very quickly. What's that statistic about what percentage of the population doesn't have any savings or assets?

But in your case, from the sound of it, you've got folks, your stepmother and your father, who are quite well off and frankly, quite old. They may easily never have to be applied for Medicaid before they no longer would need care. Talk to the attorney about the advisability of changing titles or moving assets at this point. My parent surprised everyone by living about 13 more years than predicted. We were very glad we had transferred her assets.

As I said before, if and when an application for Medicaid is taken, it is most likely your father's and your stepmother's assets will not be considered separately. And when you do that application, they do not just take anyone's word for it, you sign for it to be possible for them to obtain banking and tax information, so yes, they are definitely "delving" into people's finances at this point. But it's sort of a "beggars can't be choosers" type thing.

As long as you do not need to sign up for Medicaid, there's no advantage in filing early, as the financial situation will have dramatically changed before it ever becomes necessary. And even if your parent does not ever file an application and never uses Medicaid, part of the settling of the estate will be a form to file saying they do not owe anything to Medicaid.

 

[wenchris]

Thank you ”T” and thank you “C” This has certainly opened up our eyes to get ones affairs in order. This was our thoughts also but we were not sure.
Once again Thank you
New York
Texas
New York
Florida

 

[wenchris]

Ok, the saga continues……. Stepmom passed and my dad is the executor of her estate, he is 93. One of her sons is the alternate executor and wants to get the will to probate asap which is understandable. In NH it must be filed within 30 days. WE gathered all the paperwork and the son dropped it at the lawyers office. The house was my stepmoms name only. In the will it states that my dad can live in the house till he passes. He is leaving NH for his house in Florida and usually shuts the house down for the season, drain water etc….Her sons want to maybe use the house on a weekend over the winter and don’t want him to shut it down. They live 100 miles south of him And have never really accepted him. God forbid a pipe freezes and no one is there it would place a financial burden on him. So my question is, do they have the right to access the home while my dad is in Florida ?
Thank you
New York
Texas
New York
Florida

 

[LdiJ]

Ok, the saga continues……. Stepmom passed and my dad is the executor of her estate, he is 93. One of her sons is the alternate executor and wants to get the will to probate asap which is understandable. In NH it must be filed within 30 days. WE gathered all the paperwork and the son dropped it at the lawyers office. The house was my stepmoms name only. In the will it states that my dad can live in the house till he passes. He is leaving NH for his house in Florida and usually shuts the house down for the season, drain water etc….Her sons want to maybe use the house on a weekend over the winter and don’t want him to shut it down. They live 100 miles south of him And have never really accepted him. God forbid a pipe freezes and no one is there it would place a financial burden on him. So my question is, do they have the right to access the home while my dad is in Florida ?
Thank you
New York
Texas
New York
Florida

If your dad was granted a life estate, an exclusive right to use the house then no, they do not have the right to use the house. If not, they may have the right to use the house. However, if they have the right to use the house, then your dad would not be responsible for any damages from freezing pipes or anything else.

In other words, they don't get it both ways. Either dad has has the exclusive right to use the house and is therefore responsible for it's upkeep and maintenance, or they have the rights of full ownership now (even though he can live there) and are therefore responsible themselves for upkeep and maintenance.

It all depends on the exact wording of stepmom's will. The lawyer should be able to tell him one way or the other.

 

[wenchris]

LdiJ, thank you for your response.
The exact wording of my stepmoms will reads:

Part II The Disposition of My Property,

I give devise, and bequeath all of my estate, kind and wherever located, as follows

A. Real Estate

I. My Home in XYZ, NH
I give and devise my home at XYZ, New Hampshire as follows

a). If my spouse, John Doe survives me, I direct my executor to deed this real estate to my two surviving children, Joe Blow and Peter Blow, subject to a life estate for John Doe, and further subject to a lien in the amount of exactly $ 54,000 in favor of my husbands Four Children.

b) If my spouse, John Doe, does not survive me I direct my executor to liquidate the real estate and the net proceeds shall be distributed as follows: the sum of $54,000 from the net proceeds of the sale of said property shall be paid to my husbands four children in equal shares, in the manner of per stripes and not per capital. The remainder of the net proceeds, if any shall be distributed in equal shares between my two surviving children, Joe Blow and Peter Blow or to their issue, by right of representation, if they do not survive me.

Thats what I have as far as the house goes, is my dad responsible or her sons?
If someone gets hurt there who is liable?
Thank you so much
NY

 

[LdiJ]

LdiJ, thank you for your response.
The exact wording of my stepmoms will reads:

Part II The Disposition of My Property,

I give devise, and bequeath all of my estate, kind and wherever located, as follows

A. Real Estate

I. My Home in XYZ, NH
I give and devise my home at XYZ, New Hampshire as follows

a). If my spouse, John Doe survives me, I direct my executor to deed this real estate to my two surviving children, Joe Blow and Peter Blow, subject to a life estate for John Doe, and further subject to a lien in the amount of exactly $ 54,000 in favor of my husbands Four Children.

b) If my spouse, John Doe, does not survive me I direct my executor to liquidate the real estate and the net proceeds shall be distributed as follows: the sum of $54,000 from the net proceeds of the sale of said property shall be paid to my husbands four children in equal shares, in the manner of per stripes and not per capital. The remainder of the net proceeds, if any shall be distributed in equal shares between my two surviving children, Joe Blow and Peter Blow or to their issue, by right of representation, if they do not survive me.

Thats what I have as far as the house goes, is my dad responsible or her sons?
If someone gets hurt there who is liable?
Thank you so much
NY

Your dad has a life estate. He is responsible for the house. That also means that he has exclusive use of the house and does not have to let her kids use it. Your dad should probably ask the attorney to explain this to her kids.

 

[wenchris]

LdiJ,
Once again I can’t thank you enough. My stepmom’s sons called and started nonsense with my dad this morning. I had to call them and get it straightened out. One last question, if my dad moves out and turns the house over to her son’s can he be monetarily compensated for doing so. Not that I’m heading in that direction….Yet…but the stress they are causing is uncalled for, and I just want to be educated.
Again thank you!!!!!
New York

 

[LdiJ]

It would be better to ask the attorney to straighten them out. If the estate attorney is unwilling to do so then getting your dad his own attorney would be best.

Yes, someone can be compensated for giving up a life estate. However, it depends on whether or not the remaindermen (in this case the sons) actually want him to give up the life estate bad enough to be willing to compensate him for doing so. It is also possible to sell a life estate, but again, only if there is a willing buyer. There are formulas to determine the monetary value of a life estate. Life expectancy factors in. Since your dad is 93 the value of the life estate is not going to be high. You can google to find those formulas.

 

[wenchris]

It would be better to ask the attorney to straighten them out. If the estate attorney is unwilling to do so then getting your dad his own attorney would be best.

Yes, someone can be compensated for giving up a life estate. However, it depends on whether or not the remaindermen (in this case the sons) actually want him to give up the life estate bad enough to be willing to compensate him for doing so. It is also possible to sell a life estate, but again, only if there is a willing buyer. There are formulas to determine the monetary value of a life estate. Life expectancy factors in. Since your dad is 93 the value of the life estate is not going to be high. You can google to find those formulas.

LdiJ,
If we ever cross paths, I owe you a steak dinner and an ice cold beverage of your choice!
Thank You !!!!!!!
New York