Will this sign protect me from frivolous lawsuits?

[quincy]

… If I were in your shoes, I would take too much comfort from putting up that sign. …

I think you might be missing a “not.”

 

[Taxing Matters]

I think you might be missing a “not.”

Yes, I was. Thanks for spotting it. I've made the correction, so future readers won't be confused.

 

[quincy]

Yes, I was. Thanks for spotting it. I've made the correction, so future readers won't be confused.

Future readers would probably just think you were overly fond of signs.

 

[MioProton]

The new law became effective on March 24, 2023, and only applies to causes of action arising after this effective date and filed after this effective date.

Under the new law, an action founded on negligence must be filed within 2 years from the time the cause of action arises, is discovered or should have been discovered. The 2-year limitations period is a reduction from the previous 4-year statute of limitations.

Florida now uses contributory fault in determining damages. If a plaintiff is deemed to be more than 50% at fault for an accident or injury, there is no recovery of damages. And there must be evidence of damages in order to collect on past medical treatment or services (e.g., actual amounts paid or obligated to pay) and evidence to support future payments.

In other words, those looking to make an easy buck might find that staging accidents is not the best way to do it.

As to using warning signs in your place of business, you might drive more people away from your business than you want. Certainly having signs to warn of known hazards (like wet/slippery floors) is important. Warning that your entire place of business is hazardous seems unnecessary - having a well-maintained place of business and a good premises liability insurance policy in place seems to me to be better courses of action.

What about if the person had pre-existing injuries from a car accident, but then decided to stage a slip and fall on your property to make you pay while they hide the past injuries under Hippo or HIPAA law. Would you have a case to counter sue this person for frivolous and/or fraud lawsuit?

What if the plaintiff lawyer basically said he is going to deposition every person in the state of Florida until they can harass you into a payday? People who have absolutely nothing to even do with the incident such as disgruntled ex-employees, ex-girlfriends, friends, family, neighbors, etc..

Can you countersue for frivolous lawsuit?

 

[MioProton]

Not even a little.




Because no law says it would work at all.




No it isn't.




None of your examples involve damages resulting from negligence or personal injuries.




You didn't bother to tell us anything about your personal situation that has led you to inquire about this, but the solution for things like this in a retail business situation is to have appropriate surveillance cameras. The other solution is to carry appropriate liability insurance coverage.

I previously read on this very forum that a restaurant owner could have someone arrested for an unpaid bill in a situation where they added the tip to the bill and the customer was willing to pay for the bill but was unhappy with the service and refused a tip.

They claim he had the authority to add a tip to the bill without the customer agreeing to it, and it by adding a sign on the wall which you agree to by entering the restaurant or the wording could be on the menu which you agreed to by ordering.

So is that no longer the case?

What do you want to know about my case? It's the classic case of conartist faking a slip and fall.

Has a past of doing this kind of thing. See a nice car behind them, slams on the break for no reason. Sue the driver, sue the ambulance driver, sued the doctor, sues the hospital, then goes around doing slip and calls and sues the business owners. Bunch of fakes names, etc.

Classic slip and fall scam, which is why the governor probably needed to introduce that new law.


So anyway, why do these signs work for a restaurant trying to add a tip to a bill, but now everyone said they are worthless, especially if a business owner trying to stop conartist with frivolous suits?

 

[MioProton]

MioProton, IF you decide to tell us about your current situation and what has given rise to your questions here, PLEASE add the additional information to THIS thread rather than starting a new thread.

It helps us help you better to have all related information in a single thread. Thanks.

What do you want to know? Conartist who sues everyone decided to make me the next target and stages a slip and fall. Prior lawsuits against everyone. Stages a slip and fall, not a single person can back up the story. Just made the claim out of thin air for a payday. Considering countersuing if viable.

 

[MioProton]

It won't prevent anyone filing a lawsuit against you or your business, if you have LLC, corporation, etc. And if they file the lawsuit, you'll still have to answer the lawsuit and move to dismiss because it's frivolous and the court will then dismiss if it is frivolous. Exactly the same thing that would happen without the sign.

Whether you'd be protected from liability by the sign should the claim NOT be frivolous will depend on the exact details of the claim made. Signs like the one you propose to put up are not generally complete shields against your own negligence, for example.

It doesn't hurt (in a legal sense) you to put up a sign like that. It just may not provide what you are looking for. If you want to know exactly what the sign will and will not do for you, you really need to sit down with a local attorney and explain the details of how your business operates. If I were in your shoes, I would not take too much comfort from putting up that sign. The sign is vague and there's the issue of what you'd need to do to ensure the customer sees it and what limitations the courts or state statutes put on the reach of such signs. What effect it might have on your would be customers is something I can't predict as I know nothing about your business and what competitors you have.

Do you have liability insurance for the business? If you do, that is generally your best protection against having to pay out any personal injury claims based on negligence. The insurance company provides you the attorney to defend the claim, so you don't pay for that, and if there is some liability on your part, the insurance company will negotiate to what it has to pay out as small as possible. As long as the amount paid for the claim is less than your limitation on coverage, the insurance pays it, other than any deductible you have pay as set out in the insurance contract.

Insurance company shells out of the money, then they raise your rates or drop you are a client.

What are signs not worth the meta they are printed on l and all the stuff you said about how it was placed and if the person was given the opportunity to read it and how big was the front etc.... When the TOS from a website, cell phone company, purchasing video games, etc. are giving iron clad contract status where probably 99.9%+ people don't read them. When people click though them without even looking at them for 1 second.

Companies like ROKU would basically brick your TV, make it not work until you press " I agree" to some kind of new arbitration clause. If you don't agree, you don't have to click I agree but your TV still just stop working and you have to just look at the TOS forever.

I read on this forum that a restaurant owner could put a sign-up saying how they add tips to the bill. The sign could be on the wall or it could even be printed words on the menu and that you agreed to these terms by entering the restaurant or staying and ordering in the restaurant after it was on your menu. I read that this agreement was so strong that the restaurant could even have you arrested over it. Even if you paid 100% of your food bill but refused to tip the waiter, even if the waiter is you had a good reason not to tip him and wanted to exercise that digression.

So what I am hearing is that these signs have lot of power for restaurants trying to add the tip to the bill or the electronic version of these signs in the form of the terms of service(TOS) for a ROKU, or website or digital game purchase however they have no power against a frivolous slip & fall conartist? Is that correct? They work in some situations but not others?

 

[quincy]

Insurance company shells out of the money, then they raise your rates or drop you are a client…

A person slipped and fell at your place of business and sued you, and your insurance company is handling this for you? Or did your insurer already pay the “injured” person and then raised your rates or dropped you as a client?

Despite your additional information, I am not entirely sure what is going on.

Signs warning of hazards, and disclaimers in written contracts, can work to mitigate damages (lessen the amount awarded) in the event of a lawsuit - so they are not worthless - but signs and disclaimers cannot prevent someone from suing anyway. Anyone can sue for pretty much any reason at all and the one who is sued must in some way deal with the claim, even if it is to file a counterclaim or to move to dismiss the claim as being without merit.

What sort of business do you have that might have lent itself to a slip and fall accident claim? Why do you think you were a target? What is the dollar amount involved in the claim filed against you?

Do you have an attorney working for you (e.g., your insurance company’s lawyer)?

Here is a link to an analysis of Florida's Tort Reform Act:
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/837/Analyses/h0837c.JDC.PDF

 

[Taxing Matters]

What are signs not worth the meta they are printed on l and all the stuff you said about how it was placed and if the person was given the opportunity to read it and how big was the front etc.... When the TOS from a website, cell phone company, purchasing video games, etc. are giving iron clad contract status where probably 99.9%+ people don't read them. When people click though them without even looking at them for 1 second.

The effectiveness of the website click through agreements varies from state to state and exactly how the opportunity to read it and either accept or decline it are presented to the user. It's also going to matter what kind of business you are in and who your target customers are. For example, the laws of most states give consumers more protection in take it or leave it kind of contracts than they do the business person because the business person is presumed to be more sophisticated and knowledgeable about contracts and the risk they take by not reading it first. Those are the same kinds of issues that come up the with the sign you proposed to use. That's why you want to see a business lawyer in your state regarding what the best practice is in your state for these kinds of signs and how much good the signs will actually do for you.

Southpark had a very funny (at least to me) episode that focuses on the website TOS click through agreement issus and the fact that most consumers don't bother to read them because they seem to be too long and boring and they just want to get past that to the service they want to use. They take a risk that the TOS may be binding on them and include some provision they'd not have agreed to had they actually read it. The details matter, though, as discussed above. There isn't a one size fits all answer to the question of whether that sign will be effective to achieve your goal.

 

[quincy]

… There isn't a one size fits all answer to the question of whether that sign will be effective to achieve your goal.

If MioProton has already been sued and he did not have a sign or signs installed on the premises prior to the slip and fall incident, any discussion now is merely academic.

 

[Taxing Matters]

If MioProton has already been sued and he did not have a sign or signs installed on the premises prior to the slip and fall incident, any discussion now is merely academic.

For his immediate issue that's true, but he also has to consider how best to protect himself in the future, too. To that extent, the discussion may be useful to him.

 

[quincy]

For his immediate issue that's true, but he also has to consider how best to protect himself in the future, too. To that extent, the discussion may be useful to him.

I agree the information could be useful in the future but it won’t help him with any current lawsuit if he did not have signs posted at the time of the slip and fall. And signs probably will not be helpful if his goal is to prevent future lawsuits.

 

[MioProton]

A person slipped and fell at your place of business and sued you, and your insurance company is handling this for you? Or did your insurer already pay the “injured” person and then raised your rates or dropped you as a client?

Despite your additional information, I am not entirely sure what is going on.

Signs warning of hazards, and disclaimers in written contracts, can work to mitigate damages (lessen the amount awarded) in the event of a lawsuit - so they are not worthless - but signs and disclaimers cannot prevent someone from suing anyway. Anyone can sue for pretty much any reason at all and the one who is sued must in some way deal with the claim, even if it is to file a counterclaim or to move to dismiss the claim as being without merit.

What sort of business do you have that might have lent itself to a slip and fall accident claim? Why do you think you were a target? What is the dollar amount involved in the claim filed against you?

Do you have an attorney working for you (e.g., your insurance company’s lawyer)?

Here is a link to an analysis of Florida's Tort Reform Act:
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/837/Analyses/h0837c.JDC.PDF

If you are saying that the sign can " mitigate damages (lessen the amount awarded) in the event of a lawsuit -" then it might be worth the $50 or whatever they cost .

There is nothing on my property that any more dangerous than similar properties. The events took place in a parking lot during a rainstorm, and the person claims they like slipped on the rain water or something outside because we did not control nature or the basic laws of physics.. No witnesses, no one can confirm the story, just a claim by a person who has previously been in a car accident and trying to dump those medical expenses to me.

The basic strategy is to harass everyone via deposition until a big cash settlement will be offered to stop the harassment. By the way, another relatively new Florida law said the owner had to have known about a problem and neglected it. I don't know what they were expecting? Every time it rains, to go out there with paper towels and immediately dry the rain while setting up a tent over the parking lot?

Also, they lied under oath many times and covered up the previous litigation and injuries from a car accident. I am thinking countersuit.

I'm not sure if I am being targeted personally, or rather the property was targeted at random. Happen to be raining, and it was easier to fake the slip & fall with no one around.

 

[MioProton]

The effectiveness of the website click through agreements varies from state to state and exactly how the opportunity to read it and either accept or decline it are presented to the user. It's also going to matter what kind of business you are in and who your target customers are. For example, the laws of most states give consumers more protection in take it or leave it kind of contracts than they do the business person because the business person is presumed to be more sophisticated and knowledgeable about contracts and the risk they take by not reading it first. Those are the same kinds of issues that come up the with the sign you proposed to use. That's why you want to see a business lawyer in your state regarding what the best practice is in your state for these kinds of signs and how much good the signs will actually do for you.

Southpark had a very funny (at least to me) episode that focuses on the website TOS click through agreement issus and the fact that most consumers don't bother to read them because they seem to be too long and boring and they just want to get past that to the service they want to use. They take a risk that the TOS may be binding on them and include some provision they'd not have agreed to had they actually read it. The details matter, though, as discussed above. There isn't a one size fits all answer to the question of whether that sign will be effective to achieve your goal.

Those South Park guys can be very clever at times. I know of the episode you are referring to and that has stuck with me though the years, almost I was more horrified at the episode. I mean, could a cell phone app make you click though an agreement they have rights your kidney then come to collect? It's terrifying what people agree to without even knowing.

In my case, I am trying to take a page from their book and use it for good instead of evil. Basically as a shield to protect from frivolous lawsuit in the future.

The type of lawsuit where someone blames you for the rain outside and decides to sue you and claim injuries they had got from unrelated events years prior. Maybe so that you look like a harder target than some other property.

There are no out of the ordinary dangerous to warn people about on my property. The so-called risk is the same as any standard retail property.

Laws of physics are in effect, such as gravity. Laws of nature are in effect, such as rain. Water being slippery when on the ground. Parking lot is made out of the same materials as every parking lot in the country. If you walk into the side of the building, it's made of concrete. We can't make every public structure into a rubber room, assuming the average person is some kind of dodo bird on the verge of constantly putting themselves in danger.

There are no home alone style death traps. The same risk that everyone have while going to your neighborhood stores or any parking lot anywhere in the country. There is nothing that makes this parking lot in question any more dangerous than any other parking lot.

Since there is nothing out of the ordinary, the sign might be something very generic, such as customers responsible for your own safety or some other generic phrase.

I mean, how does a place like Disney World not get sued 100 times a hour when you have massive crowds and people running in different directions. I would image some kind of TOS agreement on the tickets or sign when you enter the park? Rainstorms, and other Florida weather conditions. Thrill rides and dark rides, lights turned dim for fireworks making a trip hazard of not being able to see, etc..

I think the problem is in Florida, you have slip and fall attorneys advertising on daytime TV, on the side of the bus or bus stops, billboards, on roads, etc.. Maybe its pushed here more than other places. The Governor did say it was formally a" litigation hell" before the new rules took effect.

So I am just trying to take the edge off frivolous litigation, not looking for a bulletproof jacket.

Thanks.

 

[quincy]

If you are saying that the sign can " mitigate damages (lessen the amount awarded) in the event of a lawsuit -" then it might be worth the $50 or whatever they cost .

There is nothing on my property that any more dangerous than similar properties. The events took place in a parking lot during a rainstorm, and the person claims they like slipped on the rain water or something outside because we did not control nature or the basic laws of physics.. No witnesses, no one can confirm the story, just a claim by a person who has previously been in a car accident and trying to dump those medical expenses to me.

The basic strategy is to harass everyone via deposition until a big cash settlement will be offered to stop the harassment. By the way, another relatively new Florida law said the owner had to have known about a problem and neglected it. I don't know what they were expecting? Every time it rains, to go out there with paper towels and immediately dry the rain while setting up a tent over the parking lot?

Also, they lied under oath many times and covered up the previous litigation and injuries from a car accident. I am thinking countersuit.

I'm not sure if I am being targeted personally, or rather the property was targeted at random. Happen to be raining, and it was easier to fake the slip & fall with no one around.

How much is the person claiming in damages?

Is your insurer handling the claim for you?

The person claiming injury must provide evidence to support his claim. The evidence must show that there was a hazard in your parking lot that you were aware of and that, being aware, failed to warn about or remedy. He must prove negligence. In addition, the person claiming injury must have evidence to show that his claimed injuries were the result of the slip and fall. Medical records.

Your attorney should be able to defend you successfully against a frivolous, fraudulent claim.